BDO Common at Mall of America
Sep 8, 2011, 7:42 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,120
BDO Common at Mall of America
BDOs have been interviewing shoppers at the MOA and submitting their information to law enforcement agencies.
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9...rorism-reports
"BLOOMINGTON, Minn. - On May 1, 2008, at 4:59 p.m., Brad Kleinerman entered the spooky world of homeland security.
As he shopped for a children's watch inside the sprawling Mall of America, two security guards approached and began questioning him. Although he was not accused of wrongdoing, the guards filed a confidential report about Kleinerman that was forwarded to local police.
The reason: Guards thought he might pose a threat because they believed he had been looking at them in a suspicious way.
Najam Qureshi, owner of a kiosk that sold items from his native Pakistan, also had his own experience with authorities after his father left a cell phone on a table in the food court.
The consequence: An FBI agent showed up at the family's home, asking if they knew anyone who might want to hurt the United States...
Reporters at the Center for Investigative Reporting and NPR obtained 125 suspicious activity reports totaling over 1,000 pages dating back to Christmas Eve, 2005. The documents, provided by law enforcement officials in Minnesota, give a glimpse inside the national campaign by authorities to collect and share intelligence about possible threats.
The initiative exemplifies one of the cultural legacies of the terrorist attacks 10 years ago: Organizations and individuals are now encouraged by U.S. leaders to watch one another and report any signs of threats to homeland security authorities..."
Kind of makes me wonder if the people at the airport who have their information written down are being put into a data base.
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9...rorism-reports
"BLOOMINGTON, Minn. - On May 1, 2008, at 4:59 p.m., Brad Kleinerman entered the spooky world of homeland security.
As he shopped for a children's watch inside the sprawling Mall of America, two security guards approached and began questioning him. Although he was not accused of wrongdoing, the guards filed a confidential report about Kleinerman that was forwarded to local police.
The reason: Guards thought he might pose a threat because they believed he had been looking at them in a suspicious way.
Najam Qureshi, owner of a kiosk that sold items from his native Pakistan, also had his own experience with authorities after his father left a cell phone on a table in the food court.
The consequence: An FBI agent showed up at the family's home, asking if they knew anyone who might want to hurt the United States...
Reporters at the Center for Investigative Reporting and NPR obtained 125 suspicious activity reports totaling over 1,000 pages dating back to Christmas Eve, 2005. The documents, provided by law enforcement officials in Minnesota, give a glimpse inside the national campaign by authorities to collect and share intelligence about possible threats.
The initiative exemplifies one of the cultural legacies of the terrorist attacks 10 years ago: Organizations and individuals are now encouraged by U.S. leaders to watch one another and report any signs of threats to homeland security authorities..."
Kind of makes me wonder if the people at the airport who have their information written down are being put into a data base.
Last edited by mules; Sep 8, 2011 at 7:56 am
Sep 8, 2011, 7:51 am
#2
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 330
NPR news story on The Mall of America's Risk Assessment and Mitigation Unit
Sep 8, 2011, 8:01 am
#3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 330
Sorry for the duplicate post, didn't see it when I posted my story
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...l-america.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...l-america.html
Sep 8, 2011, 8:09 am
#4
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 121
I heard this segment on the radio driving home. Very chilling! 
I have no doubt about the records keeping either. I'm taking the advice of another recent thread and demanding a privacy act sheet if they ever try to photocopy my ID.
Then again, I've stopped flying, but if it happens at a subway or something, I'll keep it in mind.
The Mall of America is getting a call and possibly a letter from me. It's one of those destinations that are on my list to visit someday, but no more!
I have no doubt about the records keeping either. I'm taking the advice of another recent thread and demanding a privacy act sheet if they ever try to photocopy my ID.
Then again, I've stopped flying, but if it happens at a subway or something, I'll keep it in mind.
The Mall of America is getting a call and possibly a letter from me. It's one of those destinations that are on my list to visit someday, but no more!
Sep 8, 2011, 8:17 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,111
I heard this segment on the radio driving home. Very chilling!
I have no doubt about the records keeping either. I'm taking the advice of another recent thread and demanding a privacy act sheet if they ever try to photocopy my ID.
Then again, I've stopped flying, but if it happens at a subway or something, I'll keep it in mind.
The Mall of America is getting a call and possibly a letter from me. It's one of those destinations that are on my list to visit someday, but no more!
I have no doubt about the records keeping either. I'm taking the advice of another recent thread and demanding a privacy act sheet if they ever try to photocopy my ID.
Then again, I've stopped flying, but if it happens at a subway or something, I'll keep it in mind.
The Mall of America is getting a call and possibly a letter from me. It's one of those destinations that are on my list to visit someday, but no more!
I believe you have all the evidence needed to remove Mall of America from your list of places to visit.
Sep 8, 2011, 8:22 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag™ DYKWIA: SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night: Costco
Programs: Sea Shell Lounge Platinum, TSA Pre✓ Refusnik Diamond, PWP Gold, FT subset of the subset
Posts: 12,509
More here on Slate.com
Are there actually TSA employees working at the mall? My understanding is that this is all being conducted by the private security employed there, which is fine by me. If that's how they want to treat their customers, they can suffer the lost revenue when people like me take the Mall of America off my list of places to go when I have some free time in MSP.
Are there actually TSA employees working at the mall? My understanding is that this is all being conducted by the private security employed there, which is fine by me. If that's how they want to treat their customers, they can suffer the lost revenue when people like me take the Mall of America off my list of places to go when I have some free time in MSP.
Sep 8, 2011, 8:32 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: west of DFW airport
Programs: AA LT Gold 1.9 MM flying my way to LT PLAT
Posts: 11,074
Any company that does this sort of questioning, in this case Mall of America, deserves to loose customers.
Sep 8, 2011, 8:35 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: Choice Hotels/FFOCUS
Posts: 7,256
Sep 8, 2011, 8:56 am
#9
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN
Programs: DL Gold Medallion
Posts: 48
Geez, these guys are full of themselves . . .
"The Security Department is staffed with over 100 highly-trained personnel. These officers patrol the interior and exterior of the Mall on foot and on bicycle, while the plain clothes special operations unit focuses on threat mitigation."
Unfortunately, it sounds like most of the people they stop for "suspicious activity" (like taking pictures or video at a huge tourist attraction) are foreign travelers who don't know they can tell these wannabe warriors to go pound sand.
"The Security Department is staffed with over 100 highly-trained personnel. These officers patrol the interior and exterior of the Mall on foot and on bicycle, while the plain clothes special operations unit focuses on threat mitigation."
Unfortunately, it sounds like most of the people they stop for "suspicious activity" (like taking pictures or video at a huge tourist attraction) are foreign travelers who don't know they can tell these wannabe warriors to go pound sand.
Sep 8, 2011, 9:46 am
#10
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
I'm really torn by this one.
MOA is a business, and not public space (by some definitions). They aren't a highway, or a park, or a beach (or at least public versions of those examples). And they can conduct their business any way they wish... just as any of my local malls, or gas stations, or grocery stores are businesses. If "security" for a business asked such follow-up questions (at a Best Buy, or a Home Depot, or wherever), at that point, I have the choice of conducting my business there... or not.
On the other hand, these businesses also have to follow the law. If a private non-LEO security guard shared private information, and this sharing violated a law, I look forward to that business being litigated into debt or even bankruptcy. And it might also be the discovery process, to identify if private entities are permitted to treat their customers this way.
MOA is a business, and not public space (by some definitions). They aren't a highway, or a park, or a beach (or at least public versions of those examples). And they can conduct their business any way they wish... just as any of my local malls, or gas stations, or grocery stores are businesses. If "security" for a business asked such follow-up questions (at a Best Buy, or a Home Depot, or wherever), at that point, I have the choice of conducting my business there... or not.
On the other hand, these businesses also have to follow the law. If a private non-LEO security guard shared private information, and this sharing violated a law, I look forward to that business being litigated into debt or even bankruptcy. And it might also be the discovery process, to identify if private entities are permitted to treat their customers this way.
Sep 8, 2011, 10:03 am
#11
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,690
I heard this yesterday on the radio, and I found it chilling.
I have already written a snail-mail to send to MOA. It wasn't high on my list of places to visit, but I absolutely will not visit there now under any circumstances. Why snail-mail? Because I am not going to use my name. Otherwise, I'm quite confident I will end up on an MOA report, cc'd to the FBI and the local police department.
Records that will probably be added to Nappy's 'domestic extremist' list eventually.
There are already too many secret 'lists' that can have serious negative impacts on one's life - lists that one has no access to, no right of appeal. Lists that can negatively affect one's life for decades, with absolutely no recourse.
So some of the innocent folks at MOA now have police files and FBI files. It is clear that the files are trumped up to satisfy some number-cruncher's idea of success. Hard to make a quota if there don't seem to be any genuinely suspicious folks around today, so hey, make something up.
There have been reports of IDs and BPs being copied at checkpoints - why? where are the records?
When the government takes a citizen's name and generates a report, it is never just an 'information only' or 'false alarm'. There is always a negative connotation. Further, if any of these folks that MOA's goons wrote up ever has the misfortune to encounter LE again, they will already be slightly 'guilty' in the eyes of LE just because they were deemed 'suspicious' once before.
I have nothing to hide, but I do have a good, law-abiding name to preserve and I'm not going to risk losing it because of a bunch of quota-driven thugs at a suburban mall.
I have already written a snail-mail to send to MOA. It wasn't high on my list of places to visit, but I absolutely will not visit there now under any circumstances. Why snail-mail? Because I am not going to use my name. Otherwise, I'm quite confident I will end up on an MOA report, cc'd to the FBI and the local police department.
Records that will probably be added to Nappy's 'domestic extremist' list eventually.
There are already too many secret 'lists' that can have serious negative impacts on one's life - lists that one has no access to, no right of appeal. Lists that can negatively affect one's life for decades, with absolutely no recourse.
So some of the innocent folks at MOA now have police files and FBI files. It is clear that the files are trumped up to satisfy some number-cruncher's idea of success. Hard to make a quota if there don't seem to be any genuinely suspicious folks around today, so hey, make something up.
There have been reports of IDs and BPs being copied at checkpoints - why? where are the records?
When the government takes a citizen's name and generates a report, it is never just an 'information only' or 'false alarm'. There is always a negative connotation. Further, if any of these folks that MOA's goons wrote up ever has the misfortune to encounter LE again, they will already be slightly 'guilty' in the eyes of LE just because they were deemed 'suspicious' once before.
I have nothing to hide, but I do have a good, law-abiding name to preserve and I'm not going to risk losing it because of a bunch of quota-driven thugs at a suburban mall.
Sep 8, 2011, 10:58 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2007
Programs: HH-S WS-G
Posts: 658
I am not sure if this thread belongs in TS/S. I already saw the report mentioned in Omni.
I am not particularly surprised there is a show on TLC called "Mall Cops". If follows the mall cops at MOA. From what I saw of it the few times I flipped through it seamed that they were pretty full of themselves.
I am not particularly surprised there is a show on TLC called "Mall Cops". If follows the mall cops at MOA. From what I saw of it the few times I flipped through it seamed that they were pretty full of themselves.
Sep 8, 2011, 11:07 am
#13
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 2,976
I have some WN free flight vouchers and La Cochinita was going to go holiday shopping later this year at the MOA with our son. They were both looking forward to a fun mother/son weekend there.
No more. That trip is now off the table.
The MOA can conduct business any way it chooses. And the consumer can choose whether or not to patronize it. We choose not to.
No more. That trip is now off the table.
The MOA can conduct business any way it chooses. And the consumer can choose whether or not to patronize it. We choose not to.
Sep 8, 2011, 11:07 am
#14
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,004
Sep 8, 2011, 11:20 am
#15
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 471
I'm really torn by this one.
MOA is a business, and not public space (by some definitions). They aren't a highway, or a park, or a beach (or at least public versions of those examples). And they can conduct their business any way they wish... just as any of my local malls, or gas stations, or grocery stores are businesses. If "security" for a business asked such follow-up questions (at a Best Buy, or a Home Depot, or wherever), at that point, I have the choice of conducting my business there... or not.
On the other hand, these businesses also have to follow the law. If a private non-LEO security guard shared private information, and this sharing violated a law, I look forward to that business being litigated into debt or even bankruptcy. And it might also be the discovery process, to identify if private entities are permitted to treat their customers this way.
MOA is a business, and not public space (by some definitions). They aren't a highway, or a park, or a beach (or at least public versions of those examples). And they can conduct their business any way they wish... just as any of my local malls, or gas stations, or grocery stores are businesses. If "security" for a business asked such follow-up questions (at a Best Buy, or a Home Depot, or wherever), at that point, I have the choice of conducting my business there... or not.
On the other hand, these businesses also have to follow the law. If a private non-LEO security guard shared private information, and this sharing violated a law, I look forward to that business being litigated into debt or even bankruptcy. And it might also be the discovery process, to identify if private entities are permitted to treat their customers this way.