New TSA question: any areas of soreness?
Sep 3, 2011, 6:11 pm
#16
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,007
During recent opt outs, I've had a lot (4/5 of the last 6) of the clerks ask if I had "any sensitive or painful areas" prior to my groping. I don't recall having been asked this before. Is this a new thing? Has anyone else noticed this?
I'm wondering if this is TSA being proactive to potential threats of assault/battery by causing pain during the groping.
What would they do if I said my resistance was sore?
On a similar note, the ORD clerks on Friday had the opposite process in place. I opted out and was escorted around the WTMD (
). The clerk asked if I had done this before. I said "yes, many times" back to him. He skipped the rest of the description and went right to it.
The new TSA tag-line, Terrorists hate inconsistency, so we're doing an awesome job!
I'm wondering if this is TSA being proactive to potential threats of assault/battery by causing pain during the groping.
What would they do if I said my resistance was sore?
On a similar note, the ORD clerks on Friday had the opposite process in place. I opted out and was escorted around the WTMD (
). The clerk asked if I had done this before. I said "yes, many times" back to him. He skipped the rest of the description and went right to it. The new TSA tag-line, Terrorists hate inconsistency, so we're doing an awesome job!
Sep 3, 2011, 7:34 pm
#17
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California. USA
Posts: 1,404
A fair set of questions. ^
It’s always been a requirement as far as I know, but then again I have only been with the TSA for about 4 years now.
Why? I’m not sure if my answer is going to be satisfactory to you, but you asked. Its required because they tell us it is. “They” being the folks who make up the rules (which I fortunately am not one of). Personally, I see it as one human showing concern for another’s well being. I am not there to harm anyone, in fact harming people is about the furthest thing from my mind. But I have a job to do, and sometimes it is necessary to cause someone a bit of pain to get that job done. I don’t drag people in off the street and screen them, they come to me, and if they are rational and reasonable people then they know that they are going to be screened and that if they have a condition that will cause them pain during the process then they expect it. Problems arise when people are not “rational and reasonable”, not because of anything I am required to do.
The screening must be completed if you wish to fly. Like it or not, “thems” the rules. The way it is supposed to work is that in the areas that the passenger identifies as sensitive or painful, the TSO must take extra case to not use unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure. If merely touching the area is going to cause you pain, then expect pain, because on certain types of searches nearly every area must be touched. I have had only one passenger tell me that merely touching him was going to cause pain, but that he was aware of the requirement and was ready to deal with it. Overall it was a satisfactory procedure for the both of us and he got on his plane and I knew I had done my job to the best of my ability.
How often to you apologize for doing your job? And to whom? Why should you?
Why would one expect us to apologize for doing our job? Why should we?
It’s always been a requirement as far as I know, but then again I have only been with the TSA for about 4 years now.
Why? I’m not sure if my answer is going to be satisfactory to you, but you asked. Its required because they tell us it is. “They” being the folks who make up the rules (which I fortunately am not one of). Personally, I see it as one human showing concern for another’s well being. I am not there to harm anyone, in fact harming people is about the furthest thing from my mind. But I have a job to do, and sometimes it is necessary to cause someone a bit of pain to get that job done. I don’t drag people in off the street and screen them, they come to me, and if they are rational and reasonable people then they know that they are going to be screened and that if they have a condition that will cause them pain during the process then they expect it. Problems arise when people are not “rational and reasonable”, not because of anything I am required to do.
The screening must be completed if you wish to fly. Like it or not, “thems” the rules. The way it is supposed to work is that in the areas that the passenger identifies as sensitive or painful, the TSO must take extra case to not use unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure. If merely touching the area is going to cause you pain, then expect pain, because on certain types of searches nearly every area must be touched. I have had only one passenger tell me that merely touching him was going to cause pain, but that he was aware of the requirement and was ready to deal with it. Overall it was a satisfactory procedure for the both of us and he got on his plane and I knew I had done my job to the best of my ability.
How often to you apologize for doing your job? And to whom? Why should you?
Why would one expect us to apologize for doing our job? Why should we?
Are they told to shut up so they dont interupt the screening process? Or what happens?
This all sounds so weird to me.
A lot of people have to fly who are very sensitive and cant be touched . Some TSA agents just doesnt care.
Sep 3, 2011, 9:33 pm
#18
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BLI or CLT
Programs: The usual suspects
Posts: 1,903
I've learned over the years that most patients appreciate it if you warn them, and if you apologize, you indicate you don't want to hurt them, just help.
If an exam is unexpectedly painful, I tell the patient that I am sorry that my exam caused pain, but it helps me make the diagnosis.
It would seem to me that a human-to-human interaction such as that occurring at the checkpoint could be treated the same way. "I'm sorry that hurt, but it's necessary for safety" would acknowledge that the TSO does not enjoy inflicting pain on pax, but it is part of the job. It seems to me that is just good manners, apologize if you hurt someone.
As for the obvious, yes I know, but I am trying to comply with the new spirit in TS&S.
Sep 4, 2011, 12:28 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,134
I am a physician, and it is a daily occurrence that examining an injured area will cause pain. If I know that an exam or an injection will hurt, I say "I'm sorry this might be uncomfortable, but it is important to do this in order to help you."
I've learned over the years that most patients appreciate it if you warn them, and if you apologize, you indicate you don't want to hurt them, just help.
If an exam is unexpectedly painful, I tell the patient that I am sorry that my exam caused pain, but it helps me make the diagnosis.
It would seem to me that a human-to-human interaction such as that occurring at the checkpoint could be treated the same way. "I'm sorry that hurt, but it's necessary for safety" would acknowledge that the TSO does not enjoy inflicting pain on pax, but it is part of the job. It seems to me that is just good manners, apologize if you hurt someone.
As for the obvious, yes I know, but I am trying to comply with the new spirit in TS&S.
I've learned over the years that most patients appreciate it if you warn them, and if you apologize, you indicate you don't want to hurt them, just help.
If an exam is unexpectedly painful, I tell the patient that I am sorry that my exam caused pain, but it helps me make the diagnosis.
It would seem to me that a human-to-human interaction such as that occurring at the checkpoint could be treated the same way. "I'm sorry that hurt, but it's necessary for safety" would acknowledge that the TSO does not enjoy inflicting pain on pax, but it is part of the job. It seems to me that is just good manners, apologize if you hurt someone.
As for the obvious, yes I know, but I am trying to comply with the new spirit in TS&S.
LAX
Sep 4, 2011, 6:10 am
#20
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
But for clearing an alarm and patting someone down, no apology.
I will apologize in a heartbeat, and have many times, for inconvenience to a passenger, or if doing a pat down I get to an area that may hurt on the body (exactly why I ask about that before starting).
Sorry a a pat-down is not causing harm to anyone, whether you believe so or not.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13245800-post86.html
Sep 4, 2011, 7:52 am
#21
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on the path to perdition
Programs: Delta, United
Posts: 4,786
On a similar note, the ORD clerks on Friday had the opposite process in place. I opted out and was escorted around the WTMD (). The clerk asked if I had done this before. I said "yes, many times" back to him. He skipped the rest of the description and went right to it. [/I]
). The clerk asked if I had done this before. I said "yes, many times" back to him. He skipped the rest of the description and went right to it. [/I]
Sep 4, 2011, 7:57 am
#22
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My use online is sarcastic and meant to communicate the silliness of the TSA in using that term. In the presence of government workers intent on touching said resistance, I use the proper and/or more graphic terms.
Most recently I asked if meeting my resistance would occur before or after he touched my balls.
Most recently I asked if meeting my resistance would occur before or after he touched my balls.
I think it jars them back into reality when you actually use clinical terms. All through their training I'll bet it was mostly ambiguous terms like "resistance" , and that is what they are concentrating on while doing the grope.
The vast majority of TSA screeners did not apply for the job thinking they would be doing same-sex gropes, so telling them "Please be careful when you touch my penis and testicles, they are sore today." is going to shock them back into the reality of what they are about to do.
Sep 4, 2011, 10:12 am
#23
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
. But I have a job to do, and sometimes it is necessary to cause someone a bit of pain to get that job done. I don’t drag people in off the street and screen them, they come to me, and if they are rational and reasonable people then they know that they are going to be screened and that if they have a condition that will cause them pain during the process then they expect it. Problems arise when people are not “rational and reasonable”, not because of anything I am required to do.
The screening must be completed if you wish to fly. Like it or not, “thems” the rules. The way it is supposed to work is that in the areas that the passenger identifies as sensitive or painful, the TSO must take extra case to not use unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure. If merely touching the area is going to cause you pain, then expect pain, because on certain types of searches nearly every area must be touched. I have had only one passenger tell me that merely touching him was going to cause pain, but that he was aware of the requirement and was ready to deal with it. Overall it was a satisfactory procedure for the both of us and he got on his plane and I knew I had done my job to the best of my ability.
The screening must be completed if you wish to fly. Like it or not, “thems” the rules. The way it is supposed to work is that in the areas that the passenger identifies as sensitive or painful, the TSO must take extra case to not use unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure. If merely touching the area is going to cause you pain, then expect pain, because on certain types of searches nearly every area must be touched. I have had only one passenger tell me that merely touching him was going to cause pain, but that he was aware of the requirement and was ready to deal with it. Overall it was a satisfactory procedure for the both of us and he got on his plane and I knew I had done my job to the best of my ability.
I fly from many different countries around the world, including those some consider to be SupposedlySuperScary. In some of those countries, every passenger receives a physical pat down.
I cannot recall a single time I have received a pat down outside of the US where I was in more pain than when the process began. I will politely point out any physical limitation to the screener if they ask me to do something which requires certain movements, and never can I recall a screener responding negatively when I was unable to do so. In fact, I am often treated with extra kindness and care by these screeners.
Yet I recall many times in the US when I explained to the screener that 'I am physically unable to do XYZ' and they immediately ordered me to do 'XYZ' and they became angry when I was unable to do so. I recall many times when I was asked if I had sensitive areas, and those areas were not touched or patted down but pounded upon or squeezed, and more than once almost caused me to pass out from pain.
If other countries which are at more risk and have been at risk much longer manage to treat passengers with empathy and compassion and do not increase pain, why can your agency not do so?
Sep 4, 2011, 11:39 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,004
I am a physician, and it is a daily occurrence that examining an injured area will cause pain. If I know that an exam or an injection will hurt, I say "I'm sorry this might be uncomfortable, but it is important to do this in order to help you."
I've learned over the years that most patients appreciate it if you warn them, and if you apologize, you indicate you don't want to hurt them, just help.
If an exam is unexpectedly painful, I tell the patient that I am sorry that my exam caused pain, but it helps me make the diagnosis.
It would seem to me that a human-to-human interaction such as that occurring at the checkpoint could be treated the same way. "I'm sorry that hurt, but it's necessary for safety" would acknowledge that the TSO does not enjoy inflicting pain on pax, but it is part of the job. It seems to me that is just good manners, apologize if you hurt someone.
As for the obvious, yes I know, but I am trying to comply with the new spirit in TS&S.
I've learned over the years that most patients appreciate it if you warn them, and if you apologize, you indicate you don't want to hurt them, just help.
If an exam is unexpectedly painful, I tell the patient that I am sorry that my exam caused pain, but it helps me make the diagnosis.
It would seem to me that a human-to-human interaction such as that occurring at the checkpoint could be treated the same way. "I'm sorry that hurt, but it's necessary for safety" would acknowledge that the TSO does not enjoy inflicting pain on pax, but it is part of the job. It seems to me that is just good manners, apologize if you hurt someone.
As for the obvious, yes I know, but I am trying to comply with the new spirit in TS&S.
Perhaps some TSOs have been desensitized by their workplace and morale.
Sep 4, 2011, 1:05 pm
#25
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
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What if the a TSO is a) wrong and b) violates procedure and is then called on it by a pax where a supervisor becomes involved and the supervisor says the TSO was wrong. Or to make it very simple.....a valid (n.b. valid) Global Entry card or a Passport Card present by a pax for entry into the secure area which is refused as I/D by a TSO where said TSO says "this is not acceptable-do you have something else like a driver's license or a passport?" Should the TSO apologize for being wrong
Sep 4, 2011, 3:09 pm
#26
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
I believe this thread is in the wrong forum; it is better suited for the practical forum, as this is a question regarding TSA policy. A screener is required to ask this question, and it has been in place for many years, basically since the beginning -and yes, I do understand some screeners never ask this question. They should always ask, however.
Sep 4, 2011, 4:18 pm
#27
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
And, of course, such an attitude often diffuses the inherent tension in such situations ... which often leads to a better experience in future interactions as well.
Like any good teacher, I'll leave the answer to that questions as an exercise for the reader.
Sep 4, 2011, 4:23 pm
#28
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: in the sky
Posts: 490
I believe this thread is in the wrong forum; it is better suited for the practical forum, as this is a question regarding TSA policy. A screener is required to ask this question, and it has been in place for many years, basically since the beginning -and yes, I do understand some screeners never ask this question. They should always ask, however.
Sep 4, 2011, 5:21 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
Programs: PLT AA 2MM, Silver US, DL, NW
Posts: 115
Many professional apologize before and after they might hurt you
A fair set of questions. ^
It’s always been a requirement as far as I know, but then again I have only been with the TSA for about 4 years now.
Why? I’m not sure if my answer is going to be satisfactory to you, but you asked. Its required because they tell us it is. “They” being the folks who make up the rules (which I fortunately am not one of). Personally, I see it as one human showing concern for another’s well being. I am not there to harm anyone, in fact harming people is about the furthest thing from my mind. But I have a job to do, and sometimes it is necessary to cause someone a bit of pain to get that job done. I don’t drag people in off the street and screen them, they come to me, and if they are rational and reasonable people then they know that they are going to be screened and that if they have a condition that will cause them pain during the process then they expect it. Problems arise when people are not “rational and reasonable”, not because of anything I am required to do.
The screening must be completed if you wish to fly. Like it or not, “thems” the rules. The way it is supposed to work is that in the areas that the passenger identifies as sensitive or painful, the TSO must take extra case to not use unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure. If merely touching the area is going to cause you pain, then expect pain, because on certain types of searches nearly every area must be touched. I have had only one passenger tell me that merely touching him was going to cause pain, but that he was aware of the requirement and was ready to deal with it. Overall it was a satisfactory procedure for the both of us and he got on his plane and I knew I had done my job to the best of my ability.
How often to you apologise for doing your job? And to whom? Why should you?
Why would one expect us to apologise for doing our job? Why should we?
It’s always been a requirement as far as I know, but then again I have only been with the TSA for about 4 years now.
Why? I’m not sure if my answer is going to be satisfactory to you, but you asked. Its required because they tell us it is. “They” being the folks who make up the rules (which I fortunately am not one of). Personally, I see it as one human showing concern for another’s well being. I am not there to harm anyone, in fact harming people is about the furthest thing from my mind. But I have a job to do, and sometimes it is necessary to cause someone a bit of pain to get that job done. I don’t drag people in off the street and screen them, they come to me, and if they are rational and reasonable people then they know that they are going to be screened and that if they have a condition that will cause them pain during the process then they expect it. Problems arise when people are not “rational and reasonable”, not because of anything I am required to do.
The screening must be completed if you wish to fly. Like it or not, “thems” the rules. The way it is supposed to work is that in the areas that the passenger identifies as sensitive or painful, the TSO must take extra case to not use unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure. If merely touching the area is going to cause you pain, then expect pain, because on certain types of searches nearly every area must be touched. I have had only one passenger tell me that merely touching him was going to cause pain, but that he was aware of the requirement and was ready to deal with it. Overall it was a satisfactory procedure for the both of us and he got on his plane and I knew I had done my job to the best of my ability.
How often to you apologise for doing your job? And to whom? Why should you?
Why would one expect us to apologise for doing our job? Why should we?
Sep 4, 2011, 7:43 pm
#30
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,007
I believe this thread is in the wrong forum; it is better suited for the practical forum, as this is a question regarding TSA policy. A screener is required to ask this question, and it has been in place for many years, basically since the beginning -and yes, I do understand some screeners never ask this question. They should always ask, however.