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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   I snitched on a guy - was this the right thing to do? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1199005-i-snitched-guy-right-thing-do.html)

mendicantmonk Apr 5, 2011 11:49 pm


Originally Posted by mad1 (Post 16117300)
46 replies in the space of 2 flights? wow. ok so it seems like it's about 10 to 1 in favor of passing judgement on me being a d0uchebag rather than a genuinely concerned traveler.

Whether you're a d0uchebag or not is not possible to say from this one sample, but your actions in this case let emotions get in the way of common sense, and you did the wrong thing.


Originally Posted by mad1 (Post 16117300)
1. I was concerned, not out of a terror of having my shoes shined surreptitiously, but because of the way he went about hiding the item - first putting it in his front pocket, then thinking, and switching it to his back pocket.

That's right - he didn't want his shoe polish stolen due to a pointless and arbitrary rule, so he was concealing it. The fact that he was trying to decide how to do it at the last minute shows that it wasn't some kind of nefarious plot. If he had some kind of serious contraband in that bottle he would have split it up into multiple 100 mL bottles and put it in a ziplock bag - or put it in a contact lens solution bottle - or laser printed a fake label for a larger bottle.


Originally Posted by mad1 (Post 16117300)
Basically it's this - I'm a liberty-loving, Nudeoscope-optout-ing, common sense kind of person. But, to me, an airport is a bad bad place to be seen trying to conceal something - anything. And it's the concealment that's what made me speak up.

People conceal things for different reasons, most of them valid and non-threatening. Breast cancer survivors conceal their mastectomy prosthetics. People conceal valuable items like cash or jewelry so as not to tempt light-fingered airport security screeners. I hope if you'd managed to get this poor guy's shoe polish stolen at the checkpoint, you'd at least have had the decency to offer to buy him another one on the other side. If you're not willing to do that, I say mind your own business.

peachfront Apr 6, 2011 9:02 am

You know it was wrong. I haven't read all the responses, but there's a time and place to use your common sense. A bottle of shoeshine never was and never will be a threat to security. I report it when I see a threat. I don't snitch on somebody who just wants to be able to brush his teeth and/or shine his shoes when he gets to his destination. Our fellow passengers look rough enough these days. I think it's great that a stubborn few still brush their teeth and shine their shoes. Everybody doesn't have to get where they're going looking like a pig!

What was your motive for snitching? There is no evidence that any of the various liquid plots down through the years could have resulted in a danger to the aircraft. So there is not a safety issue.

If the guy was drunk and it was a pint of booze, if it was his granddaddy's pocket knife and there was at least some small chance it could be used as a weapon...anything. But this is on the level of the guys who reported the Muslim imans for praying. Shoeshine is OK. Prayer is OK. Even if the TSA doesn't agree, we are allowed to use some common sense and kindness toward our fellow suffering passengers.

I read that the TSA will eventually have a device that will allow them to tell the difference between shampoo and a bomb. But I already have that device. It's called eyes. Unfortunately, this device has to be used with a dash of common sense...

Sounds like the staff on line that day actually used their common sense and the bottle of shoeshine was OK.

Often1 Apr 6, 2011 9:07 am

You did the right thing. The reason for the liquid limit ban is that liquids can carry explosives in suspense and that the screening technology deployed does not yet detect the dangerous stuff. You don't know what was in the bottle. The others on this board who sneak liquids through are taking a risk, but, becs they know what they are sneaking, it's not, in fact, dangerous.

rgfloor Apr 6, 2011 9:13 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 16170321)
You did the right thing. The reason for the liquid limit ban is that liquids can carry explosives in suspense and that the screening technology deployed does not yet detect the dangerous stuff. You don't know what was in the bottle. The others on this board who sneak liquids through are taking a risk, but, becs they know what they are sneaking, it's not, in fact, dangerous.



I am on pins and needles waiting to know "Is it explosive or Not?" When will we know?

That assertion is almost as laughable as if it came from the TSA.

PS: I have OCD so don't make me wait too long!!

peachfront Apr 6, 2011 9:22 am

No. Explosives can't be carried in liquid suspension in sufficient quantities to build a bomb on board. Plus you need a lab and time to get the explosive chemical back out of liquid suspension. We've already established this time and again. The various attempts at liquid bomb plots were miserable, silly, embarrassing failures. It won't work. Now if the guy was bringing an entire chemistry set onboard. Fine. Report away.




Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 16170321)
You did the right thing. The reason for the liquid limit ban is that liquids can carry explosives in suspense and that the screening technology deployed does not yet detect the dangerous stuff. You don't know what was in the bottle. The others on this board who sneak liquids through are taking a risk, but, becs they know what they are sneaking, it's not, in fact, dangerous.


GoingAway Apr 6, 2011 9:42 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 16170321)
You did the right thing. The reason for the liquid limit ban is that liquids can carry explosives in suspense and that the screening technology deployed does not yet detect the dangerous stuff. You don't know what was in the bottle. The others on this board who sneak liquids through are taking a risk, but, becs they know what they are sneaking, it's not, in fact, dangerous.

Drive safely tonight ... the chance of a car (or even pedestrian) accident is far greater than the remote possiblity of any sort of REAL, life threatening issue on your next (or any) flight. The work of Intelligence Agencies are the key to that fight, not someone ratting on their fellow passenger and certainly not the ineffective and inefficient efforts of the security folks at your local airport.

Oh, and you might want to throw out that extra kool-aid you have lying around, too :rolleyes:

RedSnapper Apr 6, 2011 12:14 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 16170321)
You did the right thing. The reason for the liquid limit ban is that liquids can carry explosives in suspense and that the screening technology deployed does not yet detect the dangerous stuff. You don't know what was in the bottle. The others on this board who sneak liquids through are taking a risk, but, becs they know what they are sneaking, it's not, in fact, dangerous.

There is absolutely, positively nothing whatsoever about a liquid that makes it any more dangerous than a solid, gas or mixed form of matter. The only reason one would have to "sneak" a liquid on board an airplane is the profoundly asinine rule against bringing them on board. The motivation to hide a liquid from the TSA is the same as the motivation to hide jewelery from a mugger; we would all do it if pressed to and given the opportunity.

I know it is easy to cave under the pressure of the fear instilled in you by the TSA its partners in crime, but you did the wrong thing, here. I'm not condemning you for it, but next time (and this applies to all of us), please just let it go.

PhoenixRev Apr 6, 2011 7:50 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 16170321)
You did the right thing. The reason for the liquid limit ban is that liquids can carry explosives in suspense and that the screening technology deployed does not yet detect the dangerous stuff. You don't know what was in the bottle. The others on this board who sneak liquids through are taking a risk, but, becs they know what they are sneaking, it's not, in fact, dangerous.

I challenge you to provide a link to a scientific, peer-reviewed study demonstrating that enough explosive in a suspension liquid in the amount contained in a shoe shine bottle or less is feasible and could be a threat to an airplane.

We are waiting on pins and needles for that study!

mg10461 Jan 14, 2013 12:24 pm

I think there are some really interesting things about the original post and the responses

The poster clearly thought and believed the concealed item was shoe shine stuff.

You can argue that it could have been anything and you can argue about the possibility of danger (to the metal or to people) in that bottle but the issue for the person posting was that something was being concealed - not the nature of the item that was being concealed. There are similar posts about reporting unattended luggage and other things like that.

This is precisely why they call it terrorism - because people become so terrified they find it hard to make reasoned, logical outcome-based decisions. I kind of understand it, but I wish we could all take a deep breath and think the sequence through before acting.

spyvsspy Jan 15, 2013 11:48 am

There is no TSA in Canada, not sure if they even have liquid restrictions to Europe.

maniac78 Jan 16, 2013 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by mad1 (Post 16111429)
What do you guys think? Was this the right thing to do?

I think you'd make a perfect CATSA bag checker or maybe a mall cop. It's a miracle that bottle of shoe shine didn't explode.


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