"You WILL apologize...."
Mar 20, 2011 | 4:16 pm
#61
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southwest Florida
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Question to Bruce, during the complete bag check, you said they only took your boarding pass and copied the information on it. Boarding passes only have your name but not your address on them. At any time during the bag check, did they remove your wallet and inspect all the contents of the wallet and copy your address from your drivers license
As far as I know, the TSA is allowed to inspect all carry on items, including wallets for WEI, but are not allowed to count the money in the wallet, look at checks, read credit cards or read any other personal information within the wallet or any other carry on item.
I believe the recent agreement accepted by the court in a lawsuit filed by the ACLU who represented the campaigner for Ron Paul against the DHS, a result of when the TSA found over $4000 and detained and questioned the campaigner. The ACLU agreed to drop the lawsuit when the DHS changed their policy that TSA inspections would be strictly limited to WEI only, plus any banned contraband.
If a TSO intentionally removed your drivers license for the sole purpose of obtaining your address, this could be a violation of the agreement with the court and possibly a civil charge could be brought against the TSO who removed your drivers license.
If so, I think a call to the ACLU office who handled this case is in order, explaining the situation, ask them for the name of the Federal judge who presided over this case, and then contact one of the judges law clerks to check to see if this was a violation of the court order.
If it was me and they were going to do that thorough of an inspection, I would also have ordered them to immediately stop and requested an LEO be present before continuing, making sure the LEO knows that I called for them for the purpose to watch over the TSOs, stating I have concerns they are not to be trusted because of all the checkpoint thefts that have occurred recently.
Mr. Elliott
As far as I know, the TSA is allowed to inspect all carry on items, including wallets for WEI, but are not allowed to count the money in the wallet, look at checks, read credit cards or read any other personal information within the wallet or any other carry on item.
I believe the recent agreement accepted by the court in a lawsuit filed by the ACLU who represented the campaigner for Ron Paul against the DHS, a result of when the TSA found over $4000 and detained and questioned the campaigner. The ACLU agreed to drop the lawsuit when the DHS changed their policy that TSA inspections would be strictly limited to WEI only, plus any banned contraband.
If a TSO intentionally removed your drivers license for the sole purpose of obtaining your address, this could be a violation of the agreement with the court and possibly a civil charge could be brought against the TSO who removed your drivers license.
If so, I think a call to the ACLU office who handled this case is in order, explaining the situation, ask them for the name of the Federal judge who presided over this case, and then contact one of the judges law clerks to check to see if this was a violation of the court order.
If it was me and they were going to do that thorough of an inspection, I would also have ordered them to immediately stop and requested an LEO be present before continuing, making sure the LEO knows that I called for them for the purpose to watch over the TSOs, stating I have concerns they are not to be trusted because of all the checkpoint thefts that have occurred recently.
Mr. Elliott
Mar 20, 2011 | 4:59 pm
#63
Original Poster
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Question to Bruce, during the complete bag check, you said they only took your boarding pass and copied the information on it. Boarding passes only have your name but not your address on them. At any time during the bag check, did they remove your wallet and inspect all the contents of the wallet and copy your address from your drivers license...?
Bruce
Mar 20, 2011 | 5:07 pm
#65
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This is what always baffles me about the TSA. If a big bad terrorist group wanted to sneak something through a checkpoint wouldn't one of the oldest tricks in the book be to send a world class a**hole through first, who would be sure to stir up a ruckus? The TSA has shown repeatedly that they'll swarm like bees on to a single passenger that dares to challenge them, while basically ignoring the other passengers in line. You would think this would be rule #1 in that extensive 3 week training program. "Do not get distracted. Maintain control and situational awareness". But that would require some semblance of an IQ.
Rest assured that real terrorists would get into the secure areas of an airport by means other than the TSA checkpoint. One lead clerk in Buffalo has already been arrested for assisting a druggie getting through the checkpoint. It's a lot easier to bribe someone than it is to go through the actual TSA checkpoint.
Harassing citizens is pointless, except for the security theater aspect, which is what legitimizes the TSA and keeps the taxpayer dollars flowing.
Mar 20, 2011 | 5:21 pm
#66
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
To state it from a different angle: this story shows a process and management failure.
A retaliatory search easily diverted the full attention of multiple employees. That's an attitude and training problem. When supervisors reinforced the flawed actions, that's a management problem. Throughout this event, no one recognized the true situation of petty screeners, an illegal search of papers, and failed security.
The TSA dismisses the GSA tests of gate security as being "too clever". It doesn't take very much cleverness at all to spot and exploit these gaping holes.
A retaliatory search easily diverted the full attention of multiple employees. That's an attitude and training problem. When supervisors reinforced the flawed actions, that's a management problem. Throughout this event, no one recognized the true situation of petty screeners, an illegal search of papers, and failed security.
The TSA dismisses the GSA tests of gate security as being "too clever". It doesn't take very much cleverness at all to spot and exploit these gaping holes.
Mar 20, 2011 | 5:28 pm
#67
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 438
Velvet, Welcome to FT!
Rest assured that real terrorists would get into the secure areas of an airport by means other than the TSA checkpoint. One lead clerk in Buffalo has already been arrested for assisting a druggie getting through the checkpoint. It's a lot easier to bribe someone than it is to go through the actual TSA checkpoint.
Harassing citizens is pointless, except for the security theater aspect, which is what legitimizes the TSA and keeps the taxpayer dollars flowing.
Rest assured that real terrorists would get into the secure areas of an airport by means other than the TSA checkpoint. One lead clerk in Buffalo has already been arrested for assisting a druggie getting through the checkpoint. It's a lot easier to bribe someone than it is to go through the actual TSA checkpoint.
Harassing citizens is pointless, except for the security theater aspect, which is what legitimizes the TSA and keeps the taxpayer dollars flowing.
No, there are WAY more accessible, and dangerous, places for terrorists to target these days. Hell, if one just blew up a crowded TSA checkpoint, they'd inflict at least as much damage as blowing up a plane...and send a far more potent message to America about our utter lack of security.
Mar 20, 2011 | 5:35 pm
#68
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Posts: 2,725
No, there are WAY more accessible, and dangerous, places for terrorists to target these days. Hell, if one just blew up a crowded TSA checkpoint, they'd inflict at least as much damage as blowing up a plane...and send a far more potent message to America about our utter lack of security.
Mar 20, 2011 | 5:36 pm
#69
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What this tells me is that even the screeners themselves don't believe they have any likelihood of stopping an act of terror at the checkpoint. As easily drawn into retaliation as they are and as frequently as their attention is diverted by their personal power trips, they allow their time and focus to be consumed with hassling the people who simply want to get from Point A to Point B.
It's a sad state of affairs really, that low key, non-reactionary and largely behind the scenes security measures were not developed in the days after 9/11, and instead this intrinsically pompous, divisive and money wasting desire to make a huge deal out of the slightest thing and take away peoples rights in huge bites every couple of years became the norm.
Mar 20, 2011 | 5:44 pm
#70
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Mar 20, 2011 | 8:29 pm
#72
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,051
Another way to look at this situation is to realize how easily a group of TSO's at a checkpoint can be diverted from their primary mission.
If these TSO's were professional, they would have not taken the actions they did. Not necessarily because of courtesy to the OP, but based solely on security reasons. Resources and attention were diverted to a person who wasn't a threat. If the OP had been working as part of a team, the others would have possibly had an easier time getting something through the checkpoint.
If these TSO's were professional, they would have not taken the actions they did. Not necessarily because of courtesy to the OP, but based solely on security reasons. Resources and attention were diverted to a person who wasn't a threat. If the OP had been working as part of a team, the others would have possibly had an easier time getting something through the checkpoint.