What land border checkpoints for outbound? Are they going to double the staff for CBP, which is what all of this requires. Are they going to build a new facility at every land crossing, since there's nothing on the outbound side now in most cases? What about car lanes, are they going to build outbound checkpoints for each lane on each road?

For boats, are they somehow going to put a CBP station at every small inlet along the who-knows-how-many thousands of miles of coastline? How would they enforce that?

Someone in Congress may be screaming about "outbound immigration" but from a practical perspective, it's not remotely doable without spending hundreds of billions of dollars. SusanYRV had it right with her satire, that's what you would have. And it would still be unenforceable. Look at the current land border crossings where, theoretically, you now need a passport or equivalent to return without a secondary. Thousands are still crossing every day on a drivers license with no ill effects. DHS can scream all it wants about what it feels are requirements but in the end, they can't stop people from leaving and they certainly can't prevent a citizen from re-entering even if they have no ID of any sort. You may hit a secondary for a short while as they confirm your citizenship but in the end, you'll have no real problems coming and going.

The UK does not do outbound passport control - it's "subcontracted" to the airline in that if they have to repatriate you because you are refused entry it is at their cost. Thus, airlines do check.

I've never had any sort of Government official check my passport on the way out of the UK to anywhere by air. It's always the gate agent.

Neil

Not that huge. The UK does it in a few places by taking your photograph at check-in (or before security if you check-in online I think) if you are travelling on a domestic flight. This is then displayed to the gate agent who can verify that you haven't swapped boarding passes.

That said, most smaller UK airports segregate arrivals and departures, and you have to enter the UK and pass through security again to transit unless you enter on a domestic flight, in which case some airports let you into the departure lounge straight away.

Neil

I departed LHR on 11/30/09, right after the security check, there was an "official" looking agent (she wore a blazer) inspecting passports, she made a point of looking for my entry stamp. When I got to my departure gate AA agents (as usual) looked at my pp. [There are podiums set up--so I guess every now and then they use them.]

LHR indeed does sometimes have something approaching what appears to be exit passport control checks. It's not common and it's not a daily procedure like in the US or say the EU Schengen countries, but such checking of passports of persons departing the UK from LHR indeed does sometimes exist where you noted above.

I can't find anything concrete in this regard but IIRC it was a pledge of both parties in the UK coalition government to re-introduce exit checks (in spite of the fact that it was the last Conservative administration that did away with them!).

Confirm that on a recent flight out of STN there were UKBA staff checking documents (not everyone's though) just before the exit from the security zone.

Apparently, the answer to your questions concerning land borders is "yes." Canadian Arrested at Border. This Canadian was in his car, leaving the US at the Port Huron - Sarnia crossing (Bluewater Bridge) when his car was stopped by CBP agents for an exit inspection. He was uncooperative with what most of us would likewise be outraged at.

For boats, it is required if you touch foreign soil coming back. link. Nappy has stated in public speeches it will be required for outbound pleasure and private non-commercial fishermen as well.

As for enforcing it, they will likely do what they do for aircraft. Force you to sail to an authorized dock/port of entry. Certain airports are designated as international ports of entry where you must fly to to clear customs, or certain docks, if you're a seaplane. There are other airports where, if given prior permission you will be met by customs at a designated time called landing rights airports. For boats they already have international ports of entry where you will be met by customs.

It is already the case for aircraft, and you MUST use the internet. Even in places where it doesn't exist. Like remote northern Ontario lakes where seaplanes land and take off. My camp is one of these and there is no road, no electricity, no telephone and certainly no internet. Just a lake to land on and a dock, if you have a seaplane. I haven't used it since this latest round of CBP started and it is for sale.

Just how long do you think they'll wait before they spring it on cars in a more widespread manner than the scattered reports we're starting to hear now?

As for doubling the KBP staff, well there're a lot of unemployed voters out there who could use a job. Would you like a job citizen?

And as far as stopping someone from leaving, they can and did. At gunpoint. link here.. And CBP apparently claimed it was justified. "She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said.

Perry also said that while most of those who surrounded his airplane carried pistols, he saw at least one assault rifle carried by a CBP agent. Ivahnenko said the CBP agents involved are not equipped with assault rifles and the tactical team that does carry them was not in Long Beach that day. Perry adamantly disagrees with Ivahnenko regarding the presence of assault rifles. While Ivahnenko maintains CBP agents did not draw weapons, she said it was their idea that the Long Beach police officers have their guns out...."

It seems that you have never encountered outbound immigration control at the land crossings. They do exist. They are temporary now, and there are no dedicated facilities to perform them, but they are very real. CBP just stops all outbound cars (whether US citizens or not) and checks their immigration documents. I saw them redirecting several outbound cars for secondary inspection. So, your "there will never be exit controls on US citizens" is non-sense because the exit control already exists.

schengen member state border guards are not allowed to ask such questions to schengen member states citizens.

al

Why?

Who cares if a citizen leaves? I have always thought that the ONLY reason that the airline checks your PP is so they can be reasonably sure you will be admitted at your destination. Otherwise if you get sent back, the AIRLINE has to take you - and they don't want that. Other than this I am not sure why the govt cares if you go.

s

Two answers:

1. Follow the money - this is how contracting companies get rich off of tax dollars
2. Control over yet another aspect of peoples lives

The citizen might be a wanted criminal on the run.

Really? Can you refer me to the law / regulations / procedures for this?

Freedom of Movement is a fundamental tenet of the European Union and one of the Four Freedoms.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Fr...opean_Union%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

More specifically, see the Schengen Borders Code:

http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l14514_en.htm

In particular:

So basically - as I understand if you are an EU citizen, have a valid document that belongs to you and the officer is satisfied of this - that's it!
As a British Citizen I have never been asked a single question entering or exiting the UK or any EU/Schengen country.

All true, but that does not mean that an immigration officer would not be allowed to ask a question to verify that the traveller is the real holder of the passport. I know, for instance, that Dutch police is assisting Spanish immigration at the port of Algeciras in Southern Spain to verify the citizenship of returning Dutch nationals of Moroccan background.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot are you smoking?

ORD would be particularly painful to reconfigure - everyone would either have to exit security and take the people-mover to T5 for international connections (which would probably then be massively over capacity in terms of # of gates and need to expand somehow), or the alternate would need to be that some portion of the B concourse in T1 (probably the high # side) would need to be converted to international departures for *A members (UA, CO, AC), and one of the smaller T3 concourses (G or L) would need to be done for the other international flights that currently depart from T2/T3. Both would require interior/exterior changes to accommodate 747/767/777 operations in gates that don't have enough space outside for the plane, or inside for the passengers.

Either option would probably cost hundreds of millions to implement.

politicians and government bureacrats will have little trouble getting this done
in order to improve national security and create new jobs(thousands of new
constructions jobs, as well as new CBP officers)