Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 13680253)

To be fair, that's a misleading comparison.

A university "credit hour" is one hour a week over an entire semester, which is usually 13-15 weeks (once you take out time for spring break, legal holidays, and so on). It also assumes that students spend two hours outside of class on homework for each hour spent in class. Thus, a typical student load of 12-16 credit hours really translates into a 36-48 hour work week.

I've never been in a police academy, but I'm guessing that while there is homework, it can't possibly in the 2:1 ratio that is used for university work. (It's a little hard to take your firearm home and practice marksmanship at your desk.) So, let's assume maybe 30 minutes homework for each hour in class, or four hours a night. That would lead to a 60-hour work week, over 16-22 weeks.

Do the math ... let's see here ... if a 16 credit hour student load is 48 hours of work, then you have to multiply by 1.25 to get up to 60 hours/week. If a semester is only 14 weeks and an academy is 21 weeks, then you have to multiply again by 1.5 to get up to a comparable level.

So, 16 * 1.25 * 1.5 = 30 credits for a police academy, which is the equivalent of two semesters of university work. Which is certainly significant, of course ... conducting two full semesters of intensive university work (no basket-weaving courses here) in the space of only one semester.

But comparing 640 classroom hours to 120 credit hours is comparing apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by NY-FLA (Post 13676855)

Objectively though, these checks are nothing but harassment of regular people who are fortunate enough to travel by air and unfortunate enough to be leaving from an airport at DHS's designated internal border. They are symptomatic of how paranoid and petty the US federal government and its agencies have become; a sad ode to what was once a strong, free and vital country. :td::td::td:

Originally Posted by Firebug4 (Post 13680425)

Well I have been to both I can guaranty that there is no one forcing the college student to do anything after class. In many cases, there is nothing forcing the student to attend class. You are correct you don't take your firearm home to practice. In many cases, the cadet isn't going home at all. However, if he has to practice trigger control etc there are devices he can take home to practice that. You are underestimating the amount of off duty preparation and homework the cadet has to complete and he doesn't get a choice to blow it off and just take a C for the class instead of an A. It just doesn't work that way.

Originally Posted by Firebug4 (Post 13679411)

I actually agree 100%. That is why the job generally is not easy to obtain and the applicants are heavily scrutinized. LEO's are often held to a higher standard and for the most part should be. Most departments do have peer review as well as management oversight and court reviews. Though, there are other occupations that fit your description as well. Doctors make many decisions on a daily basis that effect peoples lives or deaths but you don’t see to many websites dedicated to telling them how to do there jobs by people who think they know better because they saw the procedure done on tv once or read about it in a book.

Originally Posted by Firebug4 (Post 13679851)

I don't agree it takes a good three to four years before an officer is truly competent in all aspects of his job. The average academy the officer attends is about 16 to 22 weeks. The academy the officer attends usually is being run 5 days a week with the officer attending classes 8 hours on each of those 5 days. If you use the low end of 16 weeks that officer has spent 640 hours in one class or another. A four year bachelor’s degree is obtained with on average with 121 to 128 credit hours. Before anyone goes nuts I am not suggesting that the officer should be awarded a BA for the academy, I am suggesting however a lot of time is spent making sure that the officer is well versed on the legal points of doing his job. The training is very specific, intense and the material is well covered.

Originally Posted by Firebug4 (Post 13677056)

I am guessing you are referring to the pastor and his video. We will all see how that plays out in court.
FB

Originally Posted by NY-FLA (Post 13676855)

Objectively though, these checks are nothing but harassment of regular people who are fortunate enough to travel by air and unfortunate enough to be leaving from an airport at DHS's designated internal border. They are symptomatic of how paranoid and petty the US federal government and its agencies have become; a sad ode to what was once a strong, free and vital country. :td::td::td:

Originally Posted by NicRic (Post 13679938)

When you go to an airport, you are entering a police state. I'm disgusted with harassment of people; I think it's a ploy to make us all really afraid.

Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 13680429)

The only thing more depressing than the increased efforts by the federal government to harass innocent citizens is the large number of citizens who have become apologists for government abuse.

Originally Posted by Firebug4 (Post 13680425)

Well I have been to both I can guaranty that there is no one forcing the college student to do anything after class. In many cases, there is nothing forcing the student to attend class. You are correct you don't take your firearm home to practice. In many cases, the cadet isn't going home at all. However, if he has to practice trigger control etc there are devices he can take home to practice that. You are underestimating the amount of off duty preparation and homework the cadet has to complete and he doesn't get a choice to blow it off and just take a C for the class instead of an A. It just doesn't work that way.

FB

Originally Posted by Firebug4 (Post 13679851)

However, pick any other occupation that you care too. Pilot, train engineer, fire fighter, paramedic, for the most part the general public does not go around telling those folks that they not only know how to do their job but can do it better without any of the training that officer under goes.

Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 13683787)

Saw a border patrol car parked on the side of I95 near Pompano Beach this morning, positioned like a speed trap to jump into traffic and pull someone over.

I guess they are going hunting for Ontario and Quebec plated cars looking for the 'big catch' - an elderly snowbird :rolleyes:

So what exactly are my rights to refuse identification demands and a car search if I'm pulled over by one of these goons within Florida?

Originally Posted by PoliceStateSurvivor (Post 13683734)

How many members of these professions are virtually immune from lawsuits?

How many of them carry deadly weapons and have virtually unlimited authority to use them?

How many of them enjoy the protection of the proverbial "blue wall of silence"?

Besides, the general public does not "tell LEOs how to do thier jobs". We, the People are trying to expose the ones who should not be in this kind of a job at all.

I am quite certain that had it not been for YouTube, the names of Oscar Grant and Johannes Mehserle would not have been so widely known. I guess the modern version of "A pen is mightier than a sword" is "A camera is mightier than a gun."

Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 13683839)

I'm not giving you legal advice, but you should take a look at United States v. Almeda-Sanchez and United States v. Brigoni-Ponce. Roving border patrol stops are a big no-no. Also, any actual car search is subject to 4th Amendment probable cause requirements, even at a Martinez-Fuerte permanent checkpoint.....

Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 13683880)

Thank you - since that's exactly what I saw, I'm comfortable knowing that I can refuse to cooperate and there is a legal basis for my refusal.

Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 13683839)

Ultimately, the agency that the officer works for will be sued and will likely pay significantly. That said, it doesn't change someone being dead or maimed, or the psychological pain someone is caused.

As for the other stuff, I couldn't put it better myself.