Call to arms.
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Half the distance to EWR than PHL.
Programs: UA, AA, B6, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG, SPG
Posts: 11,695
We have one wbi at sfo here, and I work with it every day at the checkpoint. Honestly, the images we see aren't that great, but good enough to determine if you have a wallet in your pocket or a knife strapped to your chest (and that's happened with me before). It's great technology, and it does work. There are signs next to it to explain what it does, and we have people explaining what it does as well. As a passenger, it is your right to not go through it. Anyone who opts out of the wbi instead gets a patdown. Nobody can force you to go through the wbi. It uses zero x-rays, so it's not going to expose you to anything. If I remember correctly, the machine that uses x-rays is the backscatter, a machine we don't use.
#62
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 71
You "ask" about why people opt out of the WBI to serve your purposes of retribution and intimidation. If the TSA REALLY, REALLY was legitimately interested in what the public had to say, they'd eliminate the WBI, the shoe circus, the kippie bags and the fluid limits.
Look, the easy answer is this: We already go through the magnetometer. Why not walk through an ETP and be done with it? (And please don't insult my intelligence by claiming "technological concerns").
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,990
We have one wbi at sfo here, and I work with it every day at the checkpoint. Honestly, the images we see aren't that great, but good enough to determine if you have a wallet in your pocket or a knife strapped to your chest (and that's happened with me before). It's great technology, and it does work. There are signs next to it to explain what it does, and we have people explaining what it does as well. As a passenger, it is your right to not go through it. Anyone who opts out of the wbi instead gets a patdown. Nobody can force you to go through the wbi. It uses zero x-rays, so it's not going to expose you to anything. If I remember correctly, the machine that uses x-rays is the backscatter, a machine we don't use.
That is not what the head of DHS said. She clearly said that refusal only resulted in a trip thru the WTMD.
So how come you folks at SFO are doing patdowns?
#64
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 346
I don't know. That's what we do. Not because we want to intimidate you, but because that's the rules. I have no control over it. And trust me, none of us particularly care for the device.
And thyroid problems? Never heard of if from the wbi, but whatever. I mean, I work with an x-ray machine every day, what's the difference with a bit more
And thyroid problems? Never heard of if from the wbi, but whatever. I mean, I work with an x-ray machine every day, what's the difference with a bit more
#65
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 71
Unfortunately, you may be sincere and not want to intimidate us, but as I am sure you know, perception is reality. The perception is that everything about TSA is to intimidate the flying public and make them cower to all the rules, no matter how inane they may be.
And lastly, do you not understand how absolutely maddening the "that's the rules. I have NO control over it" line is? You have ABSOLUTE control over it! If you were sincere in your beliefs, you would either a) work with the chain of command to improve the process and failing that b) quit.
#66
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 346
Are you doing anything about it? Providing feedback up the chain of command with your concerns about how the WBI affects the quality of the security process, how it affects the public's view of the security process, etc? If not, then I don't believe "Your safety is our top priority". I believe "I do what I am told, no matter what, so I can pay the rent."
Unfortunately, you may be sincere and not want to intimidate us, but as I am sure you know, perception is reality. The perception is that everything about TSA is to intimidate the flying public and make them cower to all the rules, no matter how inane they may be.
And lastly, do you not understand how absolutely maddening the "that's the rules. I have NO control over it" line is? You have ABSOLUTE control over it! If you were sincere in your beliefs, you would either a) work with the chain of command to improve the process and failing that b) quit.
Unfortunately, you may be sincere and not want to intimidate us, but as I am sure you know, perception is reality. The perception is that everything about TSA is to intimidate the flying public and make them cower to all the rules, no matter how inane they may be.
And lastly, do you not understand how absolutely maddening the "that's the rules. I have NO control over it" line is? You have ABSOLUTE control over it! If you were sincere in your beliefs, you would either a) work with the chain of command to improve the process and failing that b) quit.
As me and my friend do, we cross our arms, say "BWAHAHAHA, EVIL TSA" and laugh it off. It's just better to be in a good mood then pissed at the world
#67
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
We have one wbi at sfo here, and I work with it every day at the checkpoint. Honestly, the images we see aren't that great, but good enough to determine if you have a wallet in your pocket or a knife strapped to your chest (and that's happened with me before). It's great technology, and it does work. There are signs next to it to explain what it does, and we have people explaining what it does as well. As a passenger, it is your right to not go through it. Anyone who opts out of the wbi instead gets a patdown. Nobody can force you to go through the wbi. It uses zero x-rays, so it's not going to expose you to anything. If I remember correctly, the machine that uses x-rays is the backscatter, a machine we don't use.
T-ray devices are no better at detecting explosives.
#70
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,444
We have one wbi at sfo here, and I work with it every day at the checkpoint. Honestly, the images we see aren't that great, but good enough to determine if you have a wallet in your pocket or a knife strapped to your chest (and that's happened with me before). It's great technology, and it does work. There are signs next to it to explain what it does, and we have people explaining what it does as well. As a passenger, it is your right to not go through it. Anyone who opts out of the wbi instead gets a patdown. Nobody can force you to go through the wbi. It uses zero x-rays, so it's not going to expose you to anything. If I remember correctly, the machine that uses x-rays is the backscatter, a machine we don't use.
And just to add to the chorus: WBI does not work. You should detect explosives, not images. Images can be anything, including perfectly innocent but very personal things you have no need to know about.
#71
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
IOW you cant find it either. Why not just admit it?
It was an anology, but I'm sure that does not matter, right?
I get to handel all that already, so there is not going to be a difference in my duties on their account.
Oh get over it. Nothing detects explosives. All the technology does is detect elements that are commonly used in explosives, not the explosives themselves. ETD, ETP, WBI, MMW, none of it works without human assistance and intervention.
ETP and ETD only say that yes these elements are present. The actual detection of the explosives is done by the screeners.
WBI and MMW only give a picture of hidden items. Its screeners who decide if those items are hazardous or prohibited.
They all do exactly what they are designed to do, and they do it well. Its the screeners who actually do the work of determining what is questionable, prohibited, or hazardous.
Calls for Full-Body Screening Devices Grow After Terror Attempt
"Dec. 29 (Bloomberg) -- A suspected terrorists attempt to blow up a U.S. airliner may override privacy concerns and intensify a push for full-body scanning equipment at airports.
U.S. officials charged a 23-year-old Nigerian man with trying to blow up Northwest Flight 253 as it prepared to land in Detroit on Christmas Day. President Barack Obama said yesterday he ordered a thorough review of the episode and called for new scrutiny of screening policies and technologies.
Metal detectors currently used to screen passengers wouldnt have found the explosive allegedly carried aboard by the suspect, said former Federal Aviation Administration security chief Billie Vincent. Only more sophisticated devices such as low-level X-rays and millimeter-wave technology would work, Vincent said. "
More here
Could you please tell us in which terminal and what lanes lead to it? Is it used for primary or secondary screening?
And just to add to the chorus: WBI does not work. You should detect explosives, not images. Images can be anything, including perfectly innocent but very personal things you have no need to know about.
And just to add to the chorus: WBI does not work. You should detect explosives, not images. Images can be anything, including perfectly innocent but very personal things you have no need to know about.
ETP and ETD only say that yes these elements are present. The actual detection of the explosives is done by the screeners.
WBI and MMW only give a picture of hidden items. Its screeners who decide if those items are hazardous or prohibited.
They all do exactly what they are designed to do, and they do it well. Its the screeners who actually do the work of determining what is questionable, prohibited, or hazardous.
Calls for Full-Body Screening Devices Grow After Terror Attempt
"Dec. 29 (Bloomberg) -- A suspected terrorists attempt to blow up a U.S. airliner may override privacy concerns and intensify a push for full-body scanning equipment at airports.
U.S. officials charged a 23-year-old Nigerian man with trying to blow up Northwest Flight 253 as it prepared to land in Detroit on Christmas Day. President Barack Obama said yesterday he ordered a thorough review of the episode and called for new scrutiny of screening policies and technologies.
Metal detectors currently used to screen passengers wouldnt have found the explosive allegedly carried aboard by the suspect, said former Federal Aviation Administration security chief Billie Vincent. Only more sophisticated devices such as low-level X-rays and millimeter-wave technology would work, Vincent said. "
More here
Last edited by Cholula; Jan 11, 2010 at 9:19 am Reason: Merging multiple, successive posts
#72
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Calls for Full-Body Screening Devices Grow After Terror Attempt
"Dec. 29 (Bloomberg) -- A suspected terrorist’s attempt to blow up a U.S. airliner may override privacy concerns and intensify a push for full-body scanning equipment at airports.
U.S. officials charged a 23-year-old Nigerian man with trying to blow up Northwest Flight 253 as it prepared to land in Detroit on Christmas Day. President Barack Obama said yesterday he ordered a thorough review of the episode and called for new scrutiny of screening policies and technologies.
Metal detectors currently used to screen passengers wouldn’t have found the explosive allegedly carried aboard by the suspect, said former Federal Aviation Administration security chief Billie Vincent. Only more sophisticated devices such as low-level X-rays and millimeter-wave technology would work, Vincent said. "
More here
"Dec. 29 (Bloomberg) -- A suspected terrorist’s attempt to blow up a U.S. airliner may override privacy concerns and intensify a push for full-body scanning equipment at airports.
U.S. officials charged a 23-year-old Nigerian man with trying to blow up Northwest Flight 253 as it prepared to land in Detroit on Christmas Day. President Barack Obama said yesterday he ordered a thorough review of the episode and called for new scrutiny of screening policies and technologies.
Metal detectors currently used to screen passengers wouldn’t have found the explosive allegedly carried aboard by the suspect, said former Federal Aviation Administration security chief Billie Vincent. Only more sophisticated devices such as low-level X-rays and millimeter-wave technology would work, Vincent said. "
More here
#73
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
#74
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Doha, Qatar
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan, Lufthansa Miles & More, Flying Blue, Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 1,894
The USA apparently provided Nigeria with several Nude-o-scopes. Not clear if they were in use at Lagos airport, or whether these were part of a tax-payer funded aid package or paid for by Nigeria.

