Call to arms.
#301
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,281
How do you decide whether the bag of white powder in a carry on is cocaine or a legal substance?
#302
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Ron, how would your actions as a TSA passenger- and bag-searcher (not just you on your "Where's the weapon? Where is it? Go get the weapon!" hunts, but the entire search from when a passenger puts his bag on the belt until he gets it back from you) be different than they are now if you "went looking for" tennis balls (instead of "going looking for" WEI), but still contacted a supervisor when you found things that looked like weapons, explosives, incendiaries, drugs, pictures of naked 17.5-year-olds, stolen credit cards, fraudulent passports, or evidence of immigrations violations? Wouldn't your actions be exactly the same, regardless of whether you purported to go looking for tennis balls or to go looking for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries? If so, of what significance is the fact that you went looking for tennis balls, went looking for WEI, or went looking for nothing at all?
I still contend that your TSA search of passengers' bags is as much for drugs as it is for weapons, and you have yet to provide any thoughtful refutation of this.
I still contend that your TSA search of passengers' bags is as much for drugs as it is for weapons, and you have yet to provide any thoughtful refutation of this.
#303
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Powders OTOH can be an explosive, and even if it is not depending on how it is packaged could be a suspect item.
#305




Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,957
Not according to the law it dosent.
But to further the point. An officer is allowed into a home for some reason (nothing specific) and see's 5 pounds or even a single ounce of marijuana sitting on a table. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No. Better yet, the officer has a warrent for a search for a stolen car, but when he opens the garage he discovers a meth lab. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No.
It does not matter if it is a search, a casual encounter, or an administrative search, they all fall into the plain sight rule, the same thing applies to the administrative search that the TSA performs. If we find it during a legal search then it is fair game.
But to further the point. An officer is allowed into a home for some reason (nothing specific) and see's 5 pounds or even a single ounce of marijuana sitting on a table. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No. Better yet, the officer has a warrent for a search for a stolen car, but when he opens the garage he discovers a meth lab. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No.
It does not matter if it is a search, a casual encounter, or an administrative search, they all fall into the plain sight rule, the same thing applies to the administrative search that the TSA performs. If we find it during a legal search then it is fair game.
First, in your prior example the TSO was working in his official capacity as an agent of the government. The other two were not. So that is another reason for your analogy to fail.
Second, the plain view doctrine has its limits as well. The officer in the first instance does not have the right to start searching closets looking for drugs and doesn't have the right in the second instance to even enter the house since it is very unlikely a stolen car would be there.
Third, in both of your scenarios the officer was legally entitled to be where he is based on specific (not implied) consent or by an order of the court. An administrative search is not on the same level.
Fourth, the LEO is trained to recognize drugs. You are not.
P.S. You may want to try a new spell check program -- "dosent", "see's" and "warrent."
#306
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,281
We can should we choose to, and be fully within both the law and the SOP. But I honestly cannot think of any way in which a pill can be used as a weapon, therefore I am not concerned about them.
Powders OTOH can be an explosive, and even if it is not depending on how it is packaged could be a suspect item.
Powders OTOH can be an explosive, and even if it is not depending on how it is packaged could be a suspect item.
Last edited by halls120; Jan 13, 2010 at 7:21 pm
#307
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grand Cayman
Posts: 18,737
How can marijuana be used as a weapon?
If you are worried about a powder being an explosive, why call a regular LEO? What is he going to do? Shouldn't you call a bomb expert?
Last edited by Tom M.; Jan 13, 2010 at 7:33 am
#310
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
I'm not an explosives expert, nor a pharmacist, but ... what about nitroglycerin pills? Seems like nitroglycerin is an explosive, which is within your area of concern. Are you trained to recognized an unlabeled nitroglycerin pill? Shouldn't you be?
#311
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 29,078
Not according to the law it dosent.
But to further the point. An officer is allowed into a home for some reason (nothing specific) and see's 5 pounds or even a single ounce of marijuana sitting on a table. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No. Better yet, the officer has a warrent for a search for a stolen car, but when he opens the garage he discovers a meth lab. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No.
It does not matter if it is a search, a casual encounter, or an administrative search, they all fall into the plain sight rule, the same thing applies to the administrative search that the TSA performs. If we find it during a legal search then it is fair game.
But to further the point. An officer is allowed into a home for some reason (nothing specific) and see's 5 pounds or even a single ounce of marijuana sitting on a table. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No. Better yet, the officer has a warrent for a search for a stolen car, but when he opens the garage he discovers a meth lab. He arrests the homeowner / resident. Has he violated the homeowner / residents constitutional rights? No.
It does not matter if it is a search, a casual encounter, or an administrative search, they all fall into the plain sight rule, the same thing applies to the administrative search that the TSA performs. If we find it during a legal search then it is fair game.
witnessing someone stealing (your example) is against the law and should be reported but transporting "large amounts of currency" may or may not be against the law as you do not (n.b. do not) know if a law has been violated as you do not (n.b. do not) know if said transporter of currency has or has not completed any required paperwork and as such, you as an individual may or may not be held liable for any damages incurred by the person you reported
" but think back to your reference to me as "gman" where i thought you were inferring that i worked for the g but in fact you were shortening my name. a little humor dished out also needs to be a little humor taken, right?
#312
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Ron, how would your actions as a TSA passenger- and bag-searcher (not just you on your "Where's the weapon? Where is it? Go get the weapon!" hunts, but the entire search from when a passenger puts his bag on the belt until he gets it back from you) be different than they are now if you "went looking for" tennis balls (instead of "going looking for" WEI), but still contacted a supervisor when you found things that looked like weapons, explosives, incendiaries, drugs, pictures of naked 17.5-year-olds, stolen credit cards, fraudulent passports, or evidence of immigrations violations? Wouldn't your actions be exactly the same, regardless of whether you purported to go looking for tennis balls or to go looking for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries? If so, of what significance is the fact that you went looking for tennis balls, went looking for WEI, or went looking for nothing at all?
I still contend that your TSA search of passengers' bags is as much for drugs as it is for weapons, and you have yet to provide any thoughtful refutation of this.
I still contend that your TSA search of passengers' bags is as much for drugs as it is for weapons, and you have yet to provide any thoughtful refutation of this.
I want to know what would be different about your actions when searching passengers if we called what you do a search for tennis balls and we declared weapons, explosives, and incendiaries incidental to the search as you presently designate drugs. Would your actions be any different? If not, then what's the difference between what you're doing now and performing a search for weapons, explosives, incendiaries, and drugs?
#313
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: SSSSS
Posts: 867
Quite easy Phil. Where I live, citizens cannot possess either marijuana or cocaine legally. Makes the call for a LEO easy as pie. And there are still questions about the legality of the California laws concerning the medical use of marijuana. Good thing I dont live there anymore.
Concerning cash, and your post, here:
Al Capone wasn't busted for running rum and tobacco. He was busted for not declaring and paying income tax on his earnings. Had he declared his earnings, he would not have gone to jail.
I hope I am the one you "catch" with $20k in cash on a trip. When you do and you detain me, I shall use some or all of that cash to ensure that you get your chance to use your logic to explain to a judge why you overstepped your administrative authority....oh wait! The ACLU has already given you that opportunity.
#314
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CMH
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion
Posts: 628
It's been several weeks...
I contacted ND's senators and representative right after Trollkiller made his first post on the 27th. I've yet to hear anything from any of the three. While I understand Dorgan is a bit busy contemplating his retirement, that still doesn't explain why the other two have been silent to my response.
Has anyone heard anything from their elected officials?
Has anyone heard anything from their elected officials?
#315
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
I contacted ND's senators and representative right after Trollkiller made his first post on the 27th. I've yet to hear anything from any of the three. While I understand Dorgan is a bit busy contemplating his retirement, that still doesn't explain why the other two have been silent to my response.
Has anyone heard anything from their elected officials?
Has anyone heard anything from their elected officials?



