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Originally Posted by Random_Flyer
(Post 12951942)
TK, since you're the OP, would you mind collecting the news links in the OP for easy reference?
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"After getting over the initial shock of how stupid that it seemed they were for putting out a document like that," Miller said in a phone interview, "I think the most significant risk is that when . . . you see some of the things that are marked as "security sensitive information, you have to sort of smack your hand on your forehead and say, 'What are they thinking?' " |
Originally Posted by Spiff
(Post 12952091)
"Former TSA Administrator Kip Hawley said the document is not something a security agency would want to inadvertently post online, but he said it's not a roadmap for terrorists.
Just like all the hyperventilating you used to do, right?? What the hell do you know about airport security, you incompetent jackass? You left the TSA knowing less about security than when you walked in, which was zero. You are the moron who brought us the Shoe Carnival and Liquids Idiocy. From a security perspective, you don't know even the slightest thing to comment intelligently. Kip Hawley and security are mutually exclusive. Getting this pants-wetting buffoon to make a statement simply underscores how much the TSA has screwed the pooch all these years, culminating in this latest embarrassment. Crawl back under what ever rock is currently employing you, Kippie. You're more of an idiot than ever. |
Originally Posted by RadioGirl
(Post 12951171)
Back on topic: gotta love all the comments at ABC screaming about how the media is helping the bad guys by reporting the story/linking the document. :rolleyes:
Originally Posted by Trollkiller
(Post 12951743)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8402909.stm
Article on the BBC and yes the Wandering Aramean was given credit for breaking the story. ^ |
Originally Posted by Trollkiller
(Post 12952207)
Link please. And this time I do agree with Kip. The document is not a road map for terrorist. And I also think Kip would have had the guts to make himself avaliable to the news outlets. I have not heard one peep from Gail.
If Idiot Boy had said, "this document should have been open to the public", I might have had a modicum of respect for the little shoe pervert. Instead, he gave the same BS that he did when he was the so-called "administrator" of this abomination of an agency. That quote of manure-for-brains Hawley can be found here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34335299/ns/travel-news I stand by my earlier comments. The disgusting Shoe Pervert named Kip Hawley who is directly responsible for the Shoe Carnival and the Liquids Idiocy can go straight to hell. |
Originally Posted by Random_Flyer
(Post 12952128)
Of course, if it's hidden then it allows the TSA to do pretty much anything it wants and claim "SOP" yet have the claim be unverifiable.
Originally Posted by Spiff
(Post 12952239)
If Idiot Boy had said, "this document should have been open to the public", I might have had a modicum of respect for the little shoe pervert.
Originally Posted by Spiff
(Post 12952239)
...manure-for-brains Hawley ... The disgusting Shoe Pervert named Kip Hawley who is directly responsible for the Shoe Carnival and the Liquids Idiocy can go straight to hell.
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I'm surprised Bruce Schneier hasn't said anything yet.
Also, I didn't know bdschobel would be suggested second after Schneier by Google. Then again, I didn't know he was that well known outside of FT. ;) |
Originally Posted by LoganTSO
(Post 12952591)
I'm surprised Bruce Schneier hasn't said anything yet.
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The clown news network -- better known as CNN -- is saying this is a how-to-guide for terrorists and the biggest breach of airport security since 9/11.
Do these clowns not realize that competent terrorists aren't being stopped by the TSA and that airport security screeners weren't tasked to stop the terrorists or the weapons used by the terrorists on 9/11? Do these clowns not realize that the TSA is already a big failure in reliably stopping weapons and explosives? The TSA's repeated failure to properly screen out for all weapons and explosives -- or the components for such -- is a far bigger threat to security than even the TSA's accidental transparency. Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get. |
CNN Anderson Cooper 360
Re: CNN Anderson Cooper 360 show, 12/8
On CNN, it was nice to hear fired TSA Federal Air Marshal whistleblower, Robert MacLean, give a shout-out to the front-line TSOs and FAMs who now have to deal with the fall-out from their senior executives' colossal EF-up. While Gale Rossides and her cronies hide in the "Arlington Ivory Towers," waiting for Erroll Southers to kick them out the door with phat pensions (only to go work at cushy neo-con firms collecting a second 6-figure salary)...the TSOs, FAMs, and LEOs get to shovel their sheeOUGHT. |
Originally Posted by willpolice4food
(Post 12952864)
Re: CNN Anderson Cooper 360 show, 12/8
On CNN, it was nice to hear fired TSA Federal Air Marshal whistleblower, Robert MacLean, give a shout-out to the front-line TSOs and FAMs who now have to deal with the fall-out from their senior executives' colossal EF-up. While Gale Rossides and her cronies hide in the "Arlington Ivory Towers," waiting for Erroll Southers to kick them out the door with phat pensions (only to go work at cushy neo-con firms collecting a second 6-figure salary)...the TSOs, FAMs, and LEOs get to shovel their sheeOUGHT. |
Redacted. I hope some men in suits do not show up wanting my computers;)
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"Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get." Wow, GUWonder, that was beautifully written. I do not believe in mystique-based security. The SOP document didn't really contain anything earth-shattering. In fact, I think we pretty much knew most of what was written in there. But the idea that the TSA is so inept with document security highlights their failures as an organization. The SOP also deflates the TSA's frequent arrogance about "sensitive" information. During confrontations, TSA staff have often pointed to "secret" knowledge, as if they operate in a precise, data and evidence driven environment. I'm pleased with any bad press about the TSA, and they're getting plenty of it. This is all happening around the holidays, when more people are exposed to the frustrating nature of screening, and may help dig a greater hole for the TSA in the court of public opinion. What troubles me is that the TSA might respond by making screening even more onerous. They may want to try to veil their incompetence by even more pointless ID inspections, overzealous inspection of prostheses, etc. |
Originally Posted by willpolice4food
(Post 12952864)
On CNN, it was nice to hear fired TSA Federal Air Marshal whistleblower, Robert MacLean, give a shout-out to the front-line TSOs and FAMs who now have to deal with the fall-out from their senior executives' colossal EF-up.
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.138 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)
This incident is the best thing that ever happened to Tiger Woods. :-) |
Originally Posted by Mats
(Post 12953201)
"Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get." Wow, GUWonder, that was beautifully written. I do not believe in mystique-based security. The SOP document didn't really contain anything earth-shattering. In fact, I think we pretty much knew most of what was written in there. But the idea that the TSA is so inept with document security highlights their failures as an organization. The SOP also deflates the TSA's frequent arrogance about "sensitive" information. During confrontations, TSA staff have often pointed to "secret" knowledge, as if they operate in a precise, data and evidence driven environment. I'm pleased with any bad press about the TSA, and they're getting plenty of it. This is all happening around the holidays, when more people are exposed to the frustrating nature of screening, and may help dig a greater hole for the TSA in the court of public opinion. What troubles me is that the TSA might respond by making screening even more onerous. They may want to try to veil their incompetence by even more pointless ID inspections, overzealous inspection of prostheses, etc. Some of the news articles make this the greatest security leak since the Rosenburgs, when we know that document had nothing surprising in it. |
Senate Homeland Security Committee is holding a hearing at 9:30 AM today called "Five Years After the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (IRTPA): Stopping Terrorist Travel". Should be entertaining:
http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index...3-820344cf8be0 |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 12952681)
The clown news network -- better known as CNN -- is saying this is a how-to-guide for terrorists and the biggest breach of airport security since 9/11.
Do these clowns not realize that competent terrorists aren't being stopped by the TSA and that airport security screeners weren't tasked to stop the terrorists or the weapons used by the terrorists on 9/11? Do these clowns not realize that the TSA is already a big failure in reliably stopping weapons and explosives? The TSA's repeated failure to properly screen out for all weapons and explosives -- or the components for such -- is a far bigger threat to security than even the TSA's accidental transparency. Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get. the best summary of the whole TSA situation I've read in a long time. You should apply for the job as TSA Administrator. |
Originally Posted by halls120
(Post 12953738)
^^
the best summary of the whole TSA situation I've read in a long time. You should apply for the job as TSA Administrator. Shouldn't that be "the thankless job"? Leading TSA would be about as rewarding as leading the charge of the Light Brigade. |
Originally Posted by IslandBased
(Post 12953791)
Leading TSA would be about as rewarding as leading the charge of the Light Brigade.
"We are returning airport security to private security screeners." "All TSA employees are fired." Done deal. |
Originally Posted by Spiff
(Post 12953809)
Not at all.
"We are returning airport security to private security screeners." "All TSA employees are fired." Done deal. |
Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 12950866)
Just got off the phone with a reporter. The WaPo Homeland Security Corespondent is apparently putting a piece together tonight for publication soon. ^^^
They're going after the TSA pretty hard it would seem. |
Originally Posted by IslandBased
(Post 12953840)
If I didn't hold the pessimistic view that it would end up being the same crud delivered by new uniforms, I might agree with you.
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Article about this was greenlit on Fark.com, it just went public....discussions should be good there. :D
Enjoy your PR nightmare, TSA. |
This is an excellent time to write your elected representatives and ask them to disband the TSA once and for all:
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml http://www.senate.gov/reference/comm...t_senators.htm |
Originally Posted by greggwiggins
(Post 12953860)
It's front page (below the fold) in this morning's dead-tree edition of The Washington Post. Your quotes and credit for breaking this story are after the jump.
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Originally Posted by Mats
(Post 12953201)
What troubles me is that the TSA might respond by making screening even more onerous. They may want to try to veil their incompetence by even more pointless ID inspections, overzealous inspection of prostheses, etc.
Some reactions will be internal. I'm sure this morning all checkpoints are reading their new SOP revisions like "the new WTMD tests with the fake gun block of metal are now conducted 0.75 inch lower than they were yesterday." My fear is a War on Water level knee jerk reaction issued today, like a War on Wires. "All wires larger than 36 gauge must be placed in a separate bin for visual inspection." Something that will harass every pax with a cell phone or Ipod or laptop computer charger, or a headset, which would include all FFs and almost 100% of the Kettle holiday pax. No doubt the worst harassment will be folks in powered wheelchairs. Got to rip those wires out for inspection! As for Goalies shoes, oh the humanity. . . |
Originally Posted by BarbiJKM
(Post 12953979)
sbm12 may have been the first to blog about this document (and did a great job at that!), but wasn't it OnTheAsile's post (with the original now-defunct link to the PDF doc attached to the bidding document), in response to Phil's thread about how to word a FOIA request for this kind of information, that started this whole story? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...nt-advice.html (See post # 6, Dec. 5, 2009)
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Originally Posted by BarbiJKM
(Post 12953979)
sbm12 may have been the first to blog about this document (and did a great job at that!), but wasn't it OnTheAsile's post (with the original now-defunct link to the PDF doc attached to the bidding document), in response to Phil's thread about how to word a FOIA request for this kind of information, that started this whole story? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...nt-advice.html (See post # 6, Dec. 5, 2009)
Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 12953888)
I appreciate the sentiment and will say that, unequivocally, in every conversation I have had with anyone about the topic I have explained that the document was mentioned on FlyerTalk and that FT was my impetus to go read it. I even mention that another member actually realized the text was not redacted before I did (there is a post 2 minutes prior to mine in the FOIA request thread noting the same). At this point I've been credited with "discovering" this the same way that Columbus was credited with discovering America. It was there; I have simply raised the level of attention that it receives.
I honestly have no idea why my blog post became the tipping point for the story. Looking at the few logs I have it seems that the story was posted on news.ycombinator.com at some point on Sunday. It made it to Wired's ThreatList and BoingBoing on Sunday or early Monday as well. SlashDot picked it up on Tuesday, as did the AP, the Washington Post and the Cleveland Plain Dealer. This morning has seen a rather significant amount of traffic from a BBC News story and the Register UK. I've had hits from over 100 countries in the past 72 hours. This story has most definitely gone global. I'm happy that I've been able to help raise the issue and bring it to the forefront. I just hope that something good comes from it. I continue to press the TSA press contacts I have and will be contacting some elected officials today in an effort to delve more into the FOIA issue that was identified yesterday. sbm12/Wandering Aramean. |
Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 12954053)
Absolutely. As I posted in the other thread:
I've giving credit out as much as I can (particularly since I don't actually know the other pertinent folks on this one in real life). But I'm also doing what I can to push this issue out into the public eye and draw attention to the idiocy that is the TSA. It may be that your blog posts were so much more visible than the link hidden among the many threads here. You really cast a spotlight on the issue! |
Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 12954053)
Absolutely. As I posted in the other thread:
I've giving credit out as much as I can (particularly since I don't actually know the other pertinent folks on this one in real life). But I'm also doing what I can to push this issue out into the public eye and draw attention to the idiocy that is the TSA. |
Originally Posted by Olton Hall
(Post 12954192)
Your efforts are very much appreciated. ^
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Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 12954053)
Absolutely. As I posted in the other thread:
I've giving credit out as much as I can (particularly since I don't actually know the other pertinent folks on this one in real life). But I'm also doing what I can to push this issue out into the public eye and draw attention to the idiocy that is the TSA. Great job! EDA: Here is the BBC article. Your blog is linked on the right panel of the page. |
Scapegoats located!
AP News Article
"WASHINGTON — An Obama administration official says some Transportation Security Administration employees have been placed on administrative leave after it was discovered that sensitive guidelines about airport passenger screening were posted on the Internet. Assistant Homeland Security secretary David Heyman has told senators a full investigation into the security lapse is under way. Heyman says the Homeland Security Department is stopping the posting of documents with sensitive security information either in full or in part on the Internet until the TSA review is complete." Big deal. The entire agency should be put on permanent leave. |
Originally Posted by Spiff
(Post 12954602)
AP News Article
"WASHINGTON — An Obama administration official says some Transportation Security Administration employees have been placed on administrative leave after it was discovered that sensitive guidelines about airport passenger screening were posted on the Internet. Assistant Homeland Security secretary David Heyman has told senators a full investigation into the security lapse is under way. Heyman says the Homeland Security Department is stopping the posting of documents with sensitive security information either in full or in part on the Internet until the TSA review is complete." Big deal. The entire agency should be put on permanent leave. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 12952927)
What "fall-out" will impact the "front-line TSOs and FAMs"? The TSA front-end and back-end stink in terms of effectiveness and this won't change -- for better or even worse -- the awful trend of the TSA engaging in mission creep and opposing efforts at transparency and accountability.
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Originally Posted by Associated Press
AP News Article
"WASHINGTON — An Obama administration official says some Transportation Security Administration employees have been placed on administrative leave after it was discovered that sensitive guidelines about airport passenger screening were posted on the Internet. |
Originally Posted by Spiff
(Post 12953876)
That's why we have to say NO to crap like "Team SFO" and return to Argenbright-like companies with little government interference and lots of accountability requirements.
Our path to salvation will come via the introduction of new, effective and efficient (but not invasive) technology systems which will render the screening process quick, painless and minimize interaction with screening staff. If TSA management didn't squander millions on silly uniforms or fancy award dinners, and knew how to manage vendor relationships, they could have tasked industry to create such devices by now - but we all know that's not their real priority, so they will never deliver. Given their inability to effectively restrict the viewing of sensitive data on a simple document, my assumption about their ability to develop, test and implement complex security technology systems is right about nil. |
LA Times has an original story as well today that was picked up by the Houston Chronicle.
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