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CSR & CSP Trip Cancellation benefits No Longer Covers Financial Insolvency

CSR & CSP Trip Cancellation benefits No Longer Covers Financial Insolvency

Old Jan 14, 20, 9:47 am
  #1  
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CSR & CSP Trip Cancellation benefits No Longer Covers Financial Insolvency

I thought this might be worthy to make people here aware of such stealthy change. Read the comment section of the blog write up - as early as August people were denied claims. Official language was removed in early Dec according to the TimeMachine cache.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase...al-insolvency/

One person said in comment section quoted below.

Dutchify
#875644


I mentioned on Reddit in Oct/Nov that I had the same issue. I lost a flight on XL Airways when it went bankrupt and two reps told me that Chase no longer covered this loss. Both told me the change happened in a August. I had paid mostly with UR points so I was only able to recoup about $20 through a chargeback.


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January 14, 2020 7:19 am
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Old Jan 14, 20, 1:24 pm
  #2  
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I remember someone else a few months ago in another thread claiming that this change had happened but couldn't find it in the benefits pamphlet that was online at the time. It's kinda sketchy of Chase to start denying such claims before updating their T&C IMO, but I'm sure there's something we agreed to that gives them that right.
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Old Jan 14, 20, 2:49 pm
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This puts the UR bookings at a higher risk than using CC as payment form. IIRC Visa (may be MC too) provides 120 days for chargeback on financial insolvency. UR bookings would mean a total loss of UR pts which are real cash loss at the basic 1c per pt value.

The Chase coverage is for the loss on Prepaid, unrefundable expenses from the trip cancellation caused by financial insolvency of a provider.

Last year there were quite a few LCCs went belly up, Wow and Primera came to mind. Those may have caused quite a number of claims that far exceeded the normal actuarial risk in the model. Hence the cut. I have no issue with the cut but the stealthy way Chase removes the benefit is truly disgusting..
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Old Jan 15, 20, 7:48 am
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Can y'all help me understand the scenarios where this is an issue? These are what I see:




1) Using UR points for flights

2) Charging a flight or prepaying for a hotel >120 days in advance




Would these scenarios have been covered previously?

1) You booked with a tour company and are in the middle of the trip and they went bankrupt... so you need to pay the hotel and/or find alternative flights home (like Thomas Cook)?

2) You're in the middle of a trip and the airline goes bankrupt... so you need to pay for new flights home?




Thanks!
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Old Jan 15, 20, 9:53 am
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Thanks for the heads up. This will surely cause a lot of emotions to fly, especially around the time of the AF increase. It is always great to know and compare your options. From a brief glance, it appears that American Express also did not cover this. It something to keep in mind that I really didn't think of before.
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Old Jan 15, 20, 10:17 am
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I had a Wow booking that was cancelled 3 months in advance of a flight. I only have a Chase Freedom for which I paid. I had the card with TD Visa Cash Credit, no special insurance or anything. Filed a chargeback and got it. Would there be issues with Chase with that? Or am I misunderstanding this?
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Old Jan 15, 20, 11:04 am
  #7  
mia
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The change is to insurance, not chargebacks. Chargebacks can recover the amount paid with money, but only insurance will protect an amount paid with miles or points.
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Old Jan 15, 20, 11:12 pm
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Does anyone know if the Chase Ritz card insurance still covers financial insolvency?
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Old Jan 16, 20, 12:48 am
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
The change is to insurance, not chargebacks. Chargebacks can recover the amount paid with money, but only insurance will protect an amount paid with miles or points.
Misunderstood.

Actually the insurance coverage also covers the money part, the part of trip you have already paid and unrecoupable that is NOT to the bellied up airline or tour operator.

Let's use the WOW case - you bought the WOW ticket but also made advanced purchase unreufndable hotel bookings plus a tour once you went to Europe - all were paid with a Chase card that provided the Trip Cancellation coverage with Financial Insolvency a covered event.

Wow failed. Your flight was no more. The Wow fare you paid, is recoverable thru charge back within 120 days of the charge (off the top of my head, so check Visa's words) - that is not provided by Chase, but Visa card. Now, in the past you can file Trip Cancellation claim with eClaim for reimbursement of those PREPAID, ALREADY INCURRED expenses, such as the unrefundable advanced booking hotels and the tour in Europe, since now you could no longer go due to Wow went belly up. This insurance coverage benefit is being removed. In fact per the comments, the removal was much earlier in last Summer when the online PDF had not reflected that. Since Dec it was officially removed.

You would still be protected by Visa on the money paid to the insolvent provider if the insolvency occurs within 120 days from the day you paid. However the other prepaid expenses related to the canceled trip caused by financial insolvency of the airline or tour operator, were covered in the past thru the Trip Cancellation due to financial insolvency was a covered event (like death in the family for example). That event is now official removed from a "covered" event list. So all prepaid expenses would be lost, even it is a credit card payment - because the hotel has not gone belly up, you cannot use a charge back to recoup the unrefundable booking!

US Credit Cards have provided a lot of extra insurance coverage that we tend to take it for granted, not read the fine prints, not fully understand what are covered what are not - and the Americans tend not to buy travel insurance unlike the Brits and the Australians for example. That may eventually change when more and more experience losses.

I believe UK's regulations / laws require mandatory travel insurance be built in tour prices because of events from many years ago. I wonder how much Thomas Cook's trouble would cost the underwriters and whether it would lead to some strengthening of the already existing requirements.

Last edited by Happy; Jan 16, 20 at 1:05 am
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Old Jan 16, 20, 12:54 am
  #10  
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
Can y'all help me understand the scenarios where this is an issue? These are what I see:

1) Using UR points for flights

2) Charging a flight or prepaying for a hotel >120 days in advance

Would these scenarios have been covered previously?

1) You booked with a tour company and are in the middle of the trip and they went bankrupt... so you need to pay the hotel and/or find alternative flights home (like Thomas Cook)?

2) You're in the middle of a trip and the airline goes bankrupt... so you need to pay for new flights home?

Thanks!
None of the expenses is covered in the past. The covered expenses are expenses ALREADY INCURRED when the covered event happened. NEW expenses such as those listed by you, are NEVER covered. I know this is not most people would think as logically one would think the new ticket home should be covered now the existing ticket went bad due to a covered event. NO. Chase trip interruption / cancellation insurance does NOT cover any new expenses.

Visa provides "protection" on financial insolvency caused loss if the provider goes belly up within 120 days of the charge, then a charge back to the card would recover your loss (the payment to that insolvent provider.) It does not mean you get to recoup the expenses paid to others on the same trip which was canceled due to the airline / tour company bankrupted.
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Old Jan 16, 20, 1:40 am
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Moot point since AMEX doesn't have it either.vseems to be an insurance driven decision. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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Old Jan 16, 20, 7:10 am
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
None of the expenses is covered in the past. The covered expenses are expenses ALREADY INCURRED when the covered event happened. NEW expenses such as those listed by you, are NEVER covered.
Thanks for the clarification. While Iím never happy to have reduced benefits, I donít think this really affects me... I generally fly major airlines and rarely use non refundable hotel rates.

The loss of price protection for goods hurt me much more!
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Old Mar 19, 20, 10:57 am
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The Trip Cancellation coverage specifically excludes:
Default of the Common Carrier resulting from Financial Insolvency or Financial Insolvency of a Travel Agency, Tour Operator, or Travel Supplier
Is this a change from previous versions of the Benefits Guide?

Last edited by mia; Mar 19, 20 at 12:02 pm Reason: Formatting
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Old Mar 19, 20, 11:19 am
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Originally Posted by rkb2530 View Post
The Trip Cancellation coverage specifically excludes:
Default of the Common Carrier resulting from Financial Insolvency or Financial Insolvency of a Travel Agency, Tour Operator, or Travel Supplier


Is this a change from previous versions of the Benefits Guide?
That was covered in my Aug 2018 copy of the benefits guide. Are you saving that has now been moved to the not covered list?

What version of benefits are applicable? The version effective at the time we paid/booked a trip? Or the latest version, regardless of when we booked?
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Old Mar 19, 20, 11:38 am
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Originally Posted by FlyingHighlander View Post
That was covered in my Aug 2018 copy of the benefits guide. Are you saving that has now been moved to the not covered list?

What version of benefits are applicable? The version effective at the time we paid/booked a trip? Or the latest version, regardless of when we booked?
Sorry I was quoting mia in post #113 and I somehow messed it up. I was asking if this was a change from previous versions and you have confirmed it. I have the same questions as you do with respect to when this is effective.
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