Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Nov 1, 2020, 9:25 am
#226
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
Correct. In my case, it took a frustratingly long time to guess I needed to tap the hamburger (3-bar menu).
Nov 6, 2020, 5:52 pm
#227
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,746
Get Rid of Sapphire Reserve But Keep UR Points?
Just got billed $450 for Sapphire Reserve - not travelling now, so card is surplus to needs.
Is there a cheaper card that I can downgrade to that would allow me to keep the Ultimate Rewards points?
Is there a cheaper card that I can downgrade to that would allow me to keep the Ultimate Rewards points?
Nov 6, 2020, 10:03 pm
#228
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,957
You can downgrade to Sapphire Preferred ($95) and retain the ability to transfer to airline or hotel partners. If that's not important you can downgrade to Freedom, Freedom Unlimited or Freedom Flex which are free cards that earn Ultimate Rewards.
Nov 6, 2020, 11:44 pm
#229
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: BA Avios, UA MP, AA, Choice, Club Carlson
Posts: 1,096
Thoughts
Have a CSR and will renew around March next year when 550 AF will be in effect. Got the card more than 3 years ago when it was 100 k bonus and annual reset of the 300 at calendar year.
Plan is to take advantage and cash out the 300 bucks in January but stuck on what to do with points. Currently I could use the CSR for Groceries and Amazon gift cards and get reimbursed at 1.5x points while also earning 3x points on supermarket. That maybe a pretty yield on cashing out points but another scenario is just keeping the points downgrade to a no free freedom and just wait till travel picks up and apply for a Chase Sapphire card years later when I need the airline transfer option.
What would other folks suggest? Cash out the points now or essentially place them on hold in a no fee Freedom? I'm not needing the cash right now just want to keep options open as Chase Points are quite nice to have but they don't appreciate in value. Just not so useful right at the moment.
Plan is to take advantage and cash out the 300 bucks in January but stuck on what to do with points. Currently I could use the CSR for Groceries and Amazon gift cards and get reimbursed at 1.5x points while also earning 3x points on supermarket. That maybe a pretty yield on cashing out points but another scenario is just keeping the points downgrade to a no free freedom and just wait till travel picks up and apply for a Chase Sapphire card years later when I need the airline transfer option.
What would other folks suggest? Cash out the points now or essentially place them on hold in a no fee Freedom? I'm not needing the cash right now just want to keep options open as Chase Points are quite nice to have but they don't appreciate in value. Just not so useful right at the moment.
Nov 20, 2020, 2:43 pm
#230
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
All that notwithstanding, I would expect that coverage would not apply to someone who does not currently hold the card. Although it is getting close to "what the definition of is is", the Guide says under Trip Cancellation/Interruption Insurance that "The Cardholder and Immediate Family Members are covered when the Cardholder’s name is embossed on an eligible Card issued in the United States, and the Cardholder charges all or a portion of a Trip to his or her Credit Card Account and/or Rewards programs associated with the Account." In particular, the name is embossed on an eligible Card, and a closed card (I assume) would not be eligible.
If someone would point to the clear statement that the card needs to be active, I would appreciate it.
Nov 20, 2020, 6:35 pm
#231
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,957
I find nothing that explicitly mentions downgraded accounts.
Nov 21, 2020, 1:31 pm
#232
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Thanks, mia. I realize my use of the word "active" could be misinterpreted. I meant that the account number still applied to a usable card, even if it had been downgraded, not that it could have been cancelled, and I believe your answer applies to that meaning.
While not unambiguously answering the question about a downgraded account, the Benefits Guide does make it sound like an account that has been downgraded and then upgraded to the original product should provide coverage. But I wouldn't want to bet on it.
While not unambiguously answering the question about a downgraded account, the Benefits Guide does make it sound like an account that has been downgraded and then upgraded to the original product should provide coverage. But I wouldn't want to bet on it.
Nov 23, 2020, 4:24 pm
#233
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NW Iowa
Programs: Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum Elite, Delta Silver Medallion
Posts: 378
Probably going to downgrade my CSR card that renews on January 1st for the $550 fee to the CSP. Question is...my travel credit will reset on December 24th (end of Dec statement) so if I use the entire travel credit during the next statement period and cancel the card by January 30th, will Chase try to claw back my travel credit? Do I only have 30 days from the time my CSR renews to downgrade it before being locked in to paying the full $550?
At this point I just see little value in keeping the CSR as I have the Amex Platinum which offers better benefits and have the CFU which gives me the 3% on dining which was otherwise important to me with the CSR. I'm not seeing any case for keeping it since the CSP does 90% of what the CSR does with a $95 AF.
At this point I just see little value in keeping the CSR as I have the Amex Platinum which offers better benefits and have the CFU which gives me the 3% on dining which was otherwise important to me with the CSR. I'm not seeing any case for keeping it since the CSP does 90% of what the CSR does with a $95 AF.
Nov 24, 2020, 8:44 am
#235
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NW Iowa
Programs: Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum Elite, Delta Silver Medallion
Posts: 378
Good deal. I think I'll use that up and then cancel.
I'm really surprised Chase hasn't tried to boost the benefits/earnings of the CSR especially considering how they just overhauled the CFU/CFF and gave them 3% on dining which was a major benefit for keeping the CSR in my opinion.
I'm really surprised Chase hasn't tried to boost the benefits/earnings of the CSR especially considering how they just overhauled the CFU/CFF and gave them 3% on dining which was a major benefit for keeping the CSR in my opinion.
Nov 24, 2020, 9:03 am
#236
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
Many of us who've PC'd our CSRs have expressed similar surprise. Of late, however, there are reports that Chase is making retention offers to keep CSR cardholders. One wonders if that's a scramble to stem widespread dumping of it. Chase has a history of miscalculating the CSR's popularity, after all.
Nov 24, 2020, 9:41 am
#237
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NW Iowa
Programs: Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum Elite, Delta Silver Medallion
Posts: 378
Many of us who've PC'd our CSRs have expressed similar surprise. Of late, however, there are reports that Chase is making retention offers to keep CSR cardholders. One wonders if that's a scramble to stem widespread dumping of it. Chase has a history of miscalculating the CSR's popularity, after all.
Nov 24, 2020, 11:31 am
#238
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
I'd definitely be interested in a $200 or 20K point retention offer to offset the AF. I don't WANT to downgrade my CSR as I've had it since they first came out with the 100K point bonus but it seems the benefits have lost their luster when you can get 90% of the benefits with the CSP+ CFU+CF combo. If I didn't have the Amex Platinum, I'd probably consider keeping the CSR to have one "premium" travel card but I just don't feel I can justify it anymore having two.
RNE, telling Chase: Keep your CSR. I'm all set, thank you very much.
Nov 28, 2020, 5:55 am
#239
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 89
I currently have the CSR. My annual fee hit in October. As I can't justify the cost of the annual fee, am I better off downgrading to the CSP now, or is it possible (and preferred) that I wait until January, use the $300 credit, and then downgrade?
Thanks for your feedback.
Thanks for your feedback.
Nov 28, 2020, 6:51 am
#240
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BAY AREA
Posts: 1,125
I currently have the CSR. My annual fee hit in October. As I can't justify the cost of the annual fee, am I better off downgrading to the CSP now, or is it possible (and preferred) that I wait until January, use the $300 credit, and then downgrade?
Thanks for your feedback.
Thanks for your feedback.