Actually, the best go to Discover and AMEX according to J.D. Power.

Chase is not as great as you think.

The reality is banks want your money. They don't give a [thing] about customers.

As you are forced to play the game, the only thing you can do is to get leverage with the banks.

I read the latest 10K per your advice. It turns to be the credit card business was significant to JPM, which contribute almost 10% of its noninterest revenue in 2016 (more than 10% in 2014 and 2015). On the other hand, JPM made less money from mortgage.

As soon as the revenue generated from CSP and/or CSR is sufficient, the cut may not happen at all.

Yes I realize this. Chase looks like they've fallen a bit to #6 .

Not really sure how credible JD Power is anymore, though, since they list Capital One as #3 behind AMEX and Disco... I really don't see that as being true.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...sfaction-study

And not to get off topic, but UR points in combination with "cash back" is a pretty good system, whereas AMEX and Discover do not have that. You cannot take your rewards dollars and turn them into Membership Rewards for example to get 6 MR per dollar at grocery stores, and then transfer them 1:1 at many of the transfer partners they offer (but not all since many aren't 1:1).

If Chase were to do this, when would it likely happen? It wouldn't seem right if you paid your annual fee and it's too late to get refund. I'm just wondering this because the one year anniversary is coming up. It seems like it would only be fair to give you the chance to agree to the terms before you pay another annual fee.

The cards discussed have no annual fees. I realize you are thinking about the card which receives the points, but the change would be made to the terms of the cards that send the points and those are free.

The Investment banking and Commercial banking, together they are bigger than the Consumer banking in JP Morgan's business model.

In house Trading of Equities and Fixed Income contribute a significant amount of earnings.

The latest quarter just reported, Net Income was $7 Billions.

In comparison, the consumer and community banking unit, JPMorgan's largest business division that operates Chase Bank, reported $11.4 billion in revenue, flat from a year ago.
The unit's net income was $2.2 billion

So, Chase bank's Net Income which is from all activities including business loans, mortgages, credit cards, etc etc, is 28% of the Total Net Income. I dont bother to dig up the number from CC out of the $2.2 billion. Needless to say, it contributes far less than the investment banking and trading activities. That is where the top tier banks make the bulk of their profit.

I just googled Chase Sapphire Reserve rewards program and this is the language copied directly from a PDF file specifically for the Reserve:


Being able to transfer points is a benefit of having a premium card, not the other way around. Of course there is nothing in this language that states it has to be a 1/1 transfer.

Is this just mere co-incidence or what?
 

2 of the most active bloggers and the Chase card "salesmen" are pimping the CSP today...

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...red-best-card/

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....ed-card-years/

So we have a survey, and then this sudden push of the CSP, at the time about the first anniversary of the CSR is coming up (and many cardholders would need to decide whether they want to keep it or to can it...)

What say you? :D

Another apple and orange. I focus on annual data while you pick on a quarter.

This is why we can never in agreement on this.

CSP is not a bad card. IMO, CSP has been a better card over CSR.

CSR is attractive merely on the 100K bonus.

Surprised that they're promoting the CSP rather than the CSR at a time when Chase needs CSR renewals, not downgrades to the CSP.

They do it because its easier to get referral point for CSP signups?

Easier for everyone in fact as its an easier card to sell the benefits, no 1st year fee at the top of the list.

Honestly, I think you can probably argue for either one effectively. But if you're dealing with numbers and data, the CSR is the better card, imo. The additional $55 AF would merely require one annual 20k UR redemption in order to come out ahead. That's not even taking into account 3x on travel and dining, PP, GE, etc. (although I will admit the last 2 are very much valued by each person differently).

Go back, even in the bad time the investment banking and commercial banking sides of the business have been much bigger contributors than the consumer banking which CC is only part of the whole consumer banking business.

What you have missed is, you only look at the Chase banks data but you are talking about JP Morgan the whole corporation.

I give the latest quarter's info just to show how things are - no business entities would suddenly jump such HIGH percentage in one quarter to surpass the other business entity in the same corporation.

Read even more carefully on the Year to Year, comparison of EACH business entity, you will see the Growth rates of all entities are pretty much the same as in previous year's same quarter and the year before that.

In fact the investment side suffers a big decline on the Trading of Fixed Income vehicle. And it still surplus the consumer side.

If you claim CC is an important contributor of the Consumer banking, well it is probably OK, but definitely NOT nearly as important as the investment and commercial banking when you are talking about JP Margon as a whole.

I am just trying to give out more accurate information though it would bore others but it would correct the misleading statements you made.

This I actually agree 100% and have been my argument for a long time, especially to those who claim CSR only has a net $55 AF over CSP which has the first year free benefit that CSR doesn't. So the first year of CSP actually is $245 cheaper, and there are many household can rotate the card among 2 to 3 or even more household members. CSP also does not charge AF of having an AU versus CSR charges $75, right?

Or to get the CSR holders to downgrade to CSP so Chase still gets to keep the bulk of the new market share acquired thru the CSR.

Would have to wait until after the first year is up to do that because of the CARD Act since the annual fee terms change with the PC... Most people are cancelling before the 2nd annual fee hits, so Chase would still be losing an account.

For those stating they are trying to cut losses, here's an article from July 18th that states otherwise:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/...pmorgan-c.aspx

You have 30 days from the statement date to cancel the card and get the AF reversed. That is plenty of time for the cardholder to decide what to do.

Right in this Fool article, here it is:

>>The benefits to JPMorgan Chase have been twofold. In the first case, the Chase Sapphire Reserve card has helped the bank grow its core loan portfolio, as the loans underlying credit card balances are held by banks. On top of this, as Lake noted on the call, the customers that are attracted to the card "are extraordinarily good customers. Their characteristic, their engagement, their spend, these are the customers that everybody wants to acquire. We now have them and we intend to deepen relationships with them."<<

Just how many new CSR owners would start using Chase as their primary loan provider, such as mortgages, small business, and corporation loans, from this "deepened relationship'?

>>There is, however, one thing to keep in mind. The tangible impact from these cards won't be fully felt on the bottom line by JPMorgan Chase until later. Because of the high cost of acquiring these customers, it takes years before the relationships fully season from a financial perspective. As CEO Jamie Dimon shared on the bank's conference call, the acquisition costs are expensed over 12 months, but the benefits come over seven years.<<

If I am the institution shareholders, I would NOT be happy to know that Chase has miscalculated the acquisition cost so poorly that it would take 7 years to break even.... All the spin is how Chase could cultivate the "desirable" customers so to establish deeper relationship that leads to loans and private client (investment) business... So far this remains to be seen and really is a "Pie in the Sky" thing.

The way things sound 7 years was being bigly optimistic:D

I actually prefer the CSR over the CSP. In my first year, already banked the global entry credit, blew through the travel credit in a week, and have used that PP membership more times than I can even count. For a first year effective annual fee of $50 and a second year of effective $150, worth every penny. I thought I would cancel this card but with all the perks it gives me for my high travel volumes, this card is a keeper and it will be my co-primary card along with my Amex Hilton Surpass card. If this card added Gas stations and grocery stores to bonus categories, it would easily become my #1 card.

wow, didn't know that the 1.5% CapOne QuickSilver did not have a 1% Visa network fee that is built into the exchange rates of other credit card issuers like Chase, Citibank, etc.

CaapOne has done a bad job of not publicizing their differentiator enough!

No, CapOne is not interested in getting customers who only want the card because of the FTF. I think CapOne is still a word of mouth situation. They have added tap (finally!) to QS and started a 3% dining card (2% on groceries) that I think it useful for those who dine or do groceries overseas.

It is true that if you factor the really no FTF, CapOne pretty much gives an extra 1% rebate on every overseas purchase compared to other non-FTF cards.

They had a lucrative QS Uber promotion at one point, and now they have started one with Spotify for QS.

My issue remains the same, I don't have enough spending to spread around to all these premium cards.

Rasheed

This prompted me to check it out - it is a World Elite Mastercard too. I like this card. Would get it next year after all the Chase 5/24 co-brand cards.

After seeing this thread I have promptly shifted points from Freedom cards to my Ink Preferred. The initial plan was to hold off until I am eligible for CSR and shift points there, but with potential changes I figured I'd rather have these points on a card that allows partner transfers. I've been consistently getting over 1.5c value from Southwest points, and intend to transfer pts to that program if Chase starts implementing changes proposed in the survey.

If these changes come to pass, my Freedom and Ink Cash cards will get used a lot less, and my FU will get the FU. Lol.

Rumors about restrictions on combining UR from CFU with CSR?
 

I seem to recall hearing that Chase may soon stop allowing UR points transfers from the Freedom cards to premium Sapphire cards. Is there anything to these, or am I making something up again?

Freedom, Freedom Unlimited, INK Cash and INK Unlimited are marketed as cashback cards, but they actually earn Ultimate Rewards points (which can, of course, be redeemed for cash.) It would seem straightforward for Chase to convert these to true cashback cards, and eliminate the ability to combine with Ultimate Rewards.

There has been speculation that Chase was considering this. I seem to recall it was originally based on questions from a Chase marketing survey. I expect there would surely be some advance notice.

Here is the previous thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chas...ng-points.html

Note that Chase calls this process "combining", rather than "transferring", and I have edited the thread title to conform to their usage.

Even with advance notice, it's probably still a good idea to combine all of your points at least once a month. At least that's what I'm doing, anyway.

Wow, that's the main reason why I don't use my AMEX Plat since I have my reserve too. I transfer it every month now just in case they change it

If Chase does this, I would keep CSR can get rid of the CB cards.

You'd still effectively have a lower earn rate compared to now. To me, it seems like one would be better off getting a few MR-earning cards (for example) and earning points there instead. Of course, CSR would still cost less annually than, say, the AmEx Platinum.

Yes, I meant that I would keep CSR for its benefits and dining/travel earning structure but would be offloading non CSR bonus categories to other bank cards such as AMEX.

Still, 3 points for dining is better than 1 point in Amex Plat -- and I own both

Actually 2.4x on groceries if you do 20+ purchases in a billing cycle.