Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Jun 6, 2018, 3:22 pm
#766
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The World!!!
Programs: Some of them not all ...
Posts: 1,532
Hi everyone, I recently did the double dip and got the CSR and CSP. My ultimate goal is to keep the CSR and also pick up the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited and use those 3 cards as my primaries.
By my calculations, I am at 3/24 now - 2 for the new Sapphire Cards and I also picked up the Ritz Chase card last summer which I plan to close soon. So what is the best path for getting the CF and CFU cards for me? I think Chase has a rule, only 2 applications within 30 days, so I guess at a min I need to wait that out, but just wanted to verify. After this summer we won't be traveling a whole lot so getting something with more than 1 UR / $1 spent would be nice.
By my calculations, I am at 3/24 now - 2 for the new Sapphire Cards and I also picked up the Ritz Chase card last summer which I plan to close soon. So what is the best path for getting the CF and CFU cards for me? I think Chase has a rule, only 2 applications within 30 days, so I guess at a min I need to wait that out, but just wanted to verify. After this summer we won't be traveling a whole lot so getting something with more than 1 UR / $1 spent would be nice.
So, if you do have both, why not wait until the CSP turns a year and downgrade it to one of the Freedoms. If I were you, I would go for the Chase Ink Business Unlimited with 50K Signing Bonus before applying for the Freedom Unlimited with only 15K signing bonus. Even with the sometimes targeted 30K signing bonus, the FU is no competition to the Ink BU, as they both do not have an annual fee. Now, if you do want the Freedom for the different categories every 3 months, then wait and switch the CSP to Freedom and go for the Ink Business Unlimited and you would be all set without increasing your 3/24 counter.
Jun 6, 2018, 3:35 pm
#767
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 48
Wow, thought you could not apply for both cards at the same time right now, as they banned that 11 months ago before the first year renewal came for the CSRs all over the system (I got to keep both, but ended up downgrading the CSP after keeping the CSR, which I opened with 100K when it launched), but if you did, that solves the 50 + 50 = 100K UR Points for opening both.
So, if you do have both, why not wait until the CSP turns a year and downgrade it to one of the Freedoms. If I were you, I would go for the Chase Ink Business Unlimited with 50K Signing Bonus before applying for the Freedom Unlimited with only 15K signing bonus. Even with the sometimes targeted 30K signing bonus, the FU is no competition to the Ink BU, as they both do not have an annual fee. Now, if you do want the Freedom for the different categories every 3 months, then wait and switch the CSP to Freedom and go for the Ink Business Unlimited and you would be all set without increasing your 3/24 counter.
So, if you do have both, why not wait until the CSP turns a year and downgrade it to one of the Freedoms. If I were you, I would go for the Chase Ink Business Unlimited with 50K Signing Bonus before applying for the Freedom Unlimited with only 15K signing bonus. Even with the sometimes targeted 30K signing bonus, the FU is no competition to the Ink BU, as they both do not have an annual fee. Now, if you do want the Freedom for the different categories every 3 months, then wait and switch the CSP to Freedom and go for the Ink Business Unlimited and you would be all set without increasing your 3/24 counter.
thanks for the thoughts - yeah, I was going to do the Chase FU for the 1.5x everyday spend and the Freedom for the 5x categories. Right now, unless its travel or food, I'm only getting 1x on my Sapphire I guess until I get something else.
This new way of thinking is pretty out of my comfort area, so I'm trying to learn it all. For many years, I've just had the AmEx SPG and used that card for 99% of my spending. So I'd just rack up SPG points and turn it into free hotel nights. Now a whole new system with UR and trying to figure out how to make that work the best for me.
Going to go read up on the Ink card. I guess if its the same 1.5% all purchases as the Freedom Unlimited Card, I guess I don't care which one I have.
Last edited by heckofagator; Jun 6, 2018 at 3:43 pm
Jun 6, 2018, 3:48 pm
#768
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The World!!!
Programs: Some of them not all ...
Posts: 1,532
thanks for the thoughts - yeah, I was going to do the Chase FU for the 1.5x everyday spend and the Freedom for the 5x categories. Right now, unless its travel or food, I'm only getting 1x on my Sapphire I guess until I get something else.
This new way of thinking is pretty out of my comfort area, so I'm trying to learn it all. For many years, I've just had the AmEx SPG and used that card for 99% of my spending. So I'd just rack up SPG points and turn it into free hotel nights. Now a whole new system with UR and trying to figure out how to make that work the best for me.
This new way of thinking is pretty out of my comfort area, so I'm trying to learn it all. For many years, I've just had the AmEx SPG and used that card for 99% of my spending. So I'd just rack up SPG points and turn it into free hotel nights. Now a whole new system with UR and trying to figure out how to make that work the best for me.
So again, as soon as you can, you should apply for the Ink Business Unlimited with 50K UR Points SB. This Card will give you 1.5 UR Points per $1 USD on everything that is not Travel & Restaurants (two categories dedicated to the CSR, obviously). Also, you will technically stay at 3/24. After that, it is your choice to go 4/24 and apply for the Freedom with only 15K UR Points SB or wait a year until you can downgrade the CSP to Freedom (depends on how much you want those rotating categories). But, considering you will be focusing on Chase now and forgetting about SPG, either way works, because you are bellow 5/24.
Jun 6, 2018, 6:10 pm
#769
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 48
Ok, you are now focusing on UR Points from Chase and forgetting about the New Marriott Points (Old SPG).
So again, as soon as you can, you should apply for the Ink Business Unlimited with 50K UR Points SB. This Card will give you 1.5 UR Points per $1 USD on everything that is not Travel & Restaurants (two categories dedicated to the CSR, obviously). Also, you will technically stay at 3/24. After that, it is your choice to go 4/24 and apply for the Freedom with only 15K UR Points SB or wait a year until you can downgrade the CSP to Freedom (depends on how much you want those rotating categories). But, considering you will be focusing on Chase now and forgetting about SPG, either way works, because you are bellow 5/24.
So again, as soon as you can, you should apply for the Ink Business Unlimited with 50K UR Points SB. This Card will give you 1.5 UR Points per $1 USD on everything that is not Travel & Restaurants (two categories dedicated to the CSR, obviously). Also, you will technically stay at 3/24. After that, it is your choice to go 4/24 and apply for the Freedom with only 15K UR Points SB or wait a year until you can downgrade the CSP to Freedom (depends on how much you want those rotating categories). But, considering you will be focusing on Chase now and forgetting about SPG, either way works, because you are bellow 5/24.
Jun 8, 2018, 10:04 am
#770
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: Chase Amex Citi
Posts: 1
CSP to CSR pathway
I received the CSP in May of 2016 and the sign up bonus in Aug 2016. I am looking to get the CSR by moving the UR points to my CF, PCing the CSP to FU, waiting some time, and then applying for the CSR, but I am unsure of the best timeline. I also have a trip and several big expenses in August that I would like to use for min spend on the CSR. Do I need to wait until August before applying to get the 50k bonus? Or can I start this process now (May 2018)? How long should I wait between the PC and new application? Can I pull off getting back the $95 CSP annual fee? Also, should I ask to lower credit limits on my other Chase cards to give me a better chance of getting approved for the larger CSR line of credit? Also currently sitting at 4/24 after my CSP turned 2 years old. Thanks for your input!
Jun 9, 2018, 6:57 am
#771
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
I received the CSP in May of 2016 and the sign up bonus in Aug 2016. I am looking to get the CSR by moving the UR points to my CF, PCing the CSP to FU, waiting some time, and then applying for the CSR, but I am unsure of the best timeline. I also have a trip and several big expenses in August that I would like to use for min spend on the CSR. Do I need to wait until August before applying to get the 50k bonus? Or can I start this process now (May 2018)? How long should I wait between the PC and new application? Can I pull off getting back the $95 CSP annual fee? Also, should I ask to lower credit limits on my other Chase cards to give me a better chance of getting approved for the larger CSR line of credit? Also currently sitting at 4/24 after my CSP turned 2 years old. Thanks for your input!
You are not eligible to be approved for CSR until August, and you must downgrade your CSP any time between now and 1 week prior to applying for CSR.
Jun 11, 2018, 8:21 am
#772
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,303
Wanting to PC the CSP to CSR for the 1.5x travel portal booking. I'm under 12 months of having CSP, anything else I should know before I call? Is the $300 travel benefit still calendar and not statement cycle on the CSR for when I PC to it?
Jun 11, 2018, 9:15 am
#773
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,195
You'll need to wait until you've had the CSP for one year to be able to PC to the CSR due to the fact that the CSR has a higher annual fee. Policy in place due to Chase's interpretation of the CARD Act or some such piece of legislation.
Jun 11, 2018, 12:07 pm
#774
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
The $300 cycle is anniversary based.
Jun 14, 2018, 12:32 am
#775
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Michigan, ex SF Bay Area
Posts: 833
It seems you have to wait until you’ve had the CSP for one year, period. I had to wait until the first year was up to PC my CSP to a CFU, which of course has no annual fee.
Jun 14, 2018, 7:23 am
#776
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,195
There's a multi-step process to go from CSP to CFU in less than a year - first PC from CSP to CS, then PC from CS to CFU.
Jun 14, 2018, 9:42 am
#777
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: East Coast US
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 192
Pending referral bonus during Ink downgrade?
Situation:
1st of month 1 Fee posts on Ink Preferred
10th of month 1 Statement 1 issued with annual fee included
12th of month 1 Referral bonus shows up as "earning on next statement"
30th of month 1 Last day to cancel Ink preferred with fee refund
4th of month 2 Payment due on statement that includes annual fee
10th of month 2 Statement 2 issued with referral bonus available for use/transfer to other UR card
30th of month 2 Last day to product change to Ink cash with fee refund
The objective is to get the referral bonus transferred to another UR card without paying the annual fee. The cardholder could wait to product change to Ink Cash after the 10th of month 2 when the referral bonus becomes fully available, and then get the paid annual fee refunded (probably).
BUT, any data points if there is any impact/cancellation of the referral bonus, if they product change and fee is refunded before the fee is payable on the 4th of month 2? i.e. does the Ink Preferred referral bonus still 'stick' even if the account is an Ink Cash by the time the bonus is due to be fully posted to the account?
1st of month 1 Fee posts on Ink Preferred
10th of month 1 Statement 1 issued with annual fee included
12th of month 1 Referral bonus shows up as "earning on next statement"
30th of month 1 Last day to cancel Ink preferred with fee refund
4th of month 2 Payment due on statement that includes annual fee
10th of month 2 Statement 2 issued with referral bonus available for use/transfer to other UR card
30th of month 2 Last day to product change to Ink cash with fee refund
The objective is to get the referral bonus transferred to another UR card without paying the annual fee. The cardholder could wait to product change to Ink Cash after the 10th of month 2 when the referral bonus becomes fully available, and then get the paid annual fee refunded (probably).
BUT, any data points if there is any impact/cancellation of the referral bonus, if they product change and fee is refunded before the fee is payable on the 4th of month 2? i.e. does the Ink Preferred referral bonus still 'stick' even if the account is an Ink Cash by the time the bonus is due to be fully posted to the account?
Jun 14, 2018, 9:11 pm
#778
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: Hyatt Glb, MR Plat
Posts: 2,577
When upgrading from Freedom to CSP, goes the CSP AF get billed for the first year? One of our members sitting on a stash of UR and want to transfer it out.
Jun 15, 2018, 6:19 am
#779
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
any data points if there is any impact/cancellation of the referral bonus, if they product change and fee is refunded before the fee is payable on the 4th of month 2? i.e. does the Ink Preferred referral bonus still 'stick' even if the account is an Ink Cash by the time the bonus is due to be fully posted to the account?
Jun 30, 2018, 10:19 pm
#780
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BAY AREA
Posts: 1,125
I tried doing a PC from Chase unlimited to chase freedom thru message service. I got a response that I can PC but I need to call in CS. They are not able to do a PC through secure message although I've done it before many times. Anyone know if that's Chase's new policy?