Does Everyone Else Also Hate the 77A in First Class?
 

I waited until I flew the 77A in First Class 3 times before posting this to make sure my first two flights were not anomalies.

The 77A is a severe downgrade for those who have to suffer it, which includes all YYZ and JFK flights, some YVR and some LAX flights. The seats are the same and offer the same amount of space as on the 744, and the 100 movies on the AVOD system are nice, but.....

...main complaints observed on each flight.

- Rattling of food service doors in the First Class galley during even light turbulence. Is this a design fault?
- Noise from the flight attendants doing their normal work in the First Class galley. Shhhh! It is possible to work quietly!
- Noise from flight attendants talking and laughing in the First Class galley.
- Constant stream of foot traffic of Economy and Business Class flight attendants coming to the First Class galley to visit their colleagues,. The First Class galley seems to be treated as a staff lounge with 4-5 attendants chatting at one time not being unusual.
- Cockpit crew chatting with flight attendants in the First Class galley.

The only thing that allowed me any sleep was using earplugs, but you really should not need to use ear plugs in First Class.

With First and Business Class sales down severely at CX, I would hope management would give instructions to staff to do their congregating/partying someplace else besides the First Class galley.

Flying in First Class on the 77A is truly an unbearable experience. Avoid this aircraft if possible.

I've only flown it once so far (HKG-JFK) but I have to say we didn't experience any of the above. We had a most enjoyable flight in 1A/2A.

Absurd. All of the points mentioned (except the rattling doors) are staff related, so they vary with the crew base and route. Sure the topology is different, but the 77A has other advantages (better air quality, for example) that the OP didn't mention or perhaps does not care about. However the BA forum has the same sort of diatribes about how bad F on BA 777 is compared to F on 747, so he is not alone in these viewpoints. The 747 does have a certain charm, but unless CX buys some 747-8's they have a limited life left.

I considered CX F to be the finest in the world for several years (say 2002-2006); this is no longer the case, and now does not make the top 5 -- yes, other airlines have improved so much, and CX has dropped a bit. Up to 2 years ago I saw systemic improvement at CX (every few months I would notice a change, often in mechanical or procedural aspects, and it was an improvement). Now CX seems to have lost their way (maybe some key staff left?), and the "improvements" are just changes, and as likely to be worse than what they replaced. Very sad. I guess the systemic improvement process has ended at CX.

Nothing beats the clubby and quiet atmosphere of the nose of the 747. As paisan Iam sensitive to noise, and I find the first row of the 77A very noisy (even with top-quality ear plugs). The galley is on the right side and in seats 1D&K, whatever the crew, you cant avoid being disturbed by the noise they have to make to prepare and clean the meals (including their own). The left side (seat 1A) is facing an open space and lavatory. This open space is used by staff (FA and pilots) to talk thoughout the flight and that gets ennoying. Other airlines using the 777 have the same problem. e.g. AF only has F class on its 777, and many of them with only one row; with the talkative French staff, it usually means difficult sleep as voices carry in a plane.

With the exception of rattling food carts everything is staff related. Disappointing, yes, but as pointed out 1.) it is absurd to think you can avoid this aircraft (they're to be the long-haul staple of CX) and 2.) staff issues are very fixable. Many posters on this thread time and time again have shown dismay with the current CX staffing levels (in F) and quality (in J and Y). Poor training, low morale (very low among the CX FAs I've chatted to in J) and young/inexperienced staff make them do things that defy common sense. I believe CX does itself a disservice to pay their FAs less than KA pays theirs, and I'm not surprised when over the past year I have received consistently better KA service in Y versus CX J. CX F tends to be senior people who are more mature and professional. The only times I've really been angry with service itself (not staff levels and slow service) in F it had to do with J (or Y) FAs coming up from the back as you mention - maybe to get bottled water for J pax, or food for DMs requesting it from J/Y - and making noise as they pass my seat.

I really think it comes down to morale...if I don't like my employer, I don't care about my employer's customers either. A few CX pilots have told me it's pretty sad when they go overseas on long-haul. The good news is everyone (pilots and FAs) get the same per diem allowance, although they have different durations at long-haul ports due to different work-hour rules. FAs are only technically paid for the hours they're on the aircraft, so if you have two 15 hour flights as part of a JFK round-trip but a 4 day layover in between in NYC, you only get paid for 30 hours of work. Since the FAs make so little, they often sit in their rooms and eat as cheaply as possible, because they see their per diem as a supplement to their rather dismal salary, and since they're away from home they see their per diem more as part of their "salary" than a per diem, because even though they're in some far away place it's still work. Yes, obviously the pilots would like to go party with the young FAs, but the point one (married) pilot was making to me was that the crews when doing long-haul don't really bond, even between FAs or ISMs who have a return flight together. He figures this is because everyone is trying to be so stingy with their per diem and eating in their rooms, not willing to go out and do interesting things (that may cost money) in the cities, or go out to restaurants and bars. Likely an over-simplification, but the logic of it makes sense to me. Some FAs have told me the first few flights to long-haul ports after starting at CX are great, but after the honeymoon has worn off they dread them (particularly LAX for some reason). This is because they generally have 5-6 days away from their families and friends in HKG + jetlag when they get home, but because of the pay situation they really can't do anything in the places they visit. So they have 3-4 days of fatigue and boredom as they collect their per diem. The only exception is if they have relatives who they can visit or who can take them out to dinner...otherwise they may spend a good portion of the time in the hotel. Both the FAs and pilots have told me there is little camaraderie, except in the case of really exceptional ISMs who can act like a bridge between the flight crew and the FAs, and the FAs will usually fall in-line with the attitude of the ISM.

Again, though, this is fixable, and the bad economic times could possibly make staff thankful for a job - but clearly paying your staff less than what a personal assistant makes in HK with normal hours and normal weekends does not bode well for those of us spending prolonged amounts of time on CX. It sounds like from a few posters here things may get better (and I have had better service lately in J), but let's see

Just curious, -- what do you consider the top five, and what rank would you assign to CX, both with regard to F only?

I couldn't agree more. Twice on my HKG-LAX flights, I've been the only one in F on a 747, and it's like flying in a private jet. Even when F is full, it feels more like a small club-type room than an aircraft. Same on BA, BTW. Now how can we convince CX management of the benefits of the 747-8?

I do think these are more 777 related than CX. With the 747 F in the nose there is no need for FAs to come into the cabin unless they are serving, the pilots again never have a need to come into the cabin, the galley if you are in the first one or two rows is literally in another planet so creaking doors, chatty FAs and such are too far away to be heard. Flying A330 and A340 F there are similar issues of being woken by a heavy footed, fast moving FA or pax cruising up to the forward galley or lav.

I haven't travelled on the 77W before but do agree regarding the 333 and 34C in F Class.

Well I will be sampling the LONGEST scheduled 77W flight soon and will report back.

I thought the other problem with the 77W is the lavatory as it doesn't have a window. Also because of the crew rest, the ceiling in the middle is lowered?

I just sampled the new first class seat of CX on 77A and I have to admit that I was very impressed and I can say it is one of the best in the industry. I usually don't sleep on long haul flights, however, on CX I slept for about 7 hours non stop.

About the issues you raise of the noise in the first class cabin and the foot trafic during the flight, that is something I find also in LX and LH First class cabin on their A 340 and A 333.

"Hating" F on the 77A may be a little over-the-top. I respectfully disagree with the OP based upon numerous flights in F on the 77A and the 74A. Mayble I've been exceptionlly lucky, but I've never been troubled by crew-related noise or foot-traffic. I even prefer 1A. And while I enjoyt the overall more spacious feeling that the 74A offers, I like the new-car ambience of a 77A which may be only months (as opposed to 15+ years) old.
Too each his or her own. Just remember all those other carriers out there that truly can make you shudder.

I really just think it comes down to us all being spoiled by a few decades of long-haul F travel in the nose of a 747.

It is totally true. Getting used to travel on a huge bird like the 747 and then switching to a smaller one is very annoying for some people.

However, becuase I fly a lot on LH and LX FIRST and on many flights they use the A 340 and A 333 which is very simillar to 77A of CX in terms of FIRST location, then I did not find the 77A annoying for me or disturbing.

I have flown the new F product on four sectors with the 77A and like christep, I have not been annoyed inside the cabin by the factors listed by the OP.

I do slightly like the 74A (which I have also done the new F product on several times already) over the 77A for several seats that enjoy "location advantage" which cannot be experienced the same way on the 77A as I discussed in a past thread. But by no means is the 77A an unbearable experience.

"Flying in First Class on the 77A is truly an unbearable experience...."

With all due respect, this has to be one of the most bizarre statements on FT of all time!