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GEEEE let me think......?
HKG -- YYZ on a 340 in J or in F on a 777.....?:p:p:p:p |
Go figure. I actually prefer the 77A in F over the 74A in F. The 74A are all retrofits of old planes, some of them real clunkers. 6 seats and two bathrooms, versus 9 seats and one (or is it two?) bathrooms. The 77A are brand-new spanking planes, really like the bathrooms and the general newness of the aircraft. Service wise, I haven't noticed a difference, really, so I don't know what the OP is talking about.
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Originally Posted by Pickles
(Post 10965124)
Go figure. I actually prefer the 77A in F over the 74A in F. The 74A are all retrofits of old planes, some of them real clunkers. 6 seats and two bathrooms, versus 9 seats and one (or is it two?) bathrooms. The 77A are brand-new spanking planes, really like the bathrooms and the general newness of the aircraft. Service wise, I haven't noticed a difference, really, so I don't know what the OP is talking about.
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Originally Posted by Pickles
(Post 10965124)
Go figure. I actually prefer the 77A in F over the 74A in F. The 74A are all retrofits of old planes, some of them real clunkers. 6 seats and two bathrooms, versus 9 seats and one (or is it two?) bathrooms. The 77A are brand-new spanking planes, really like the bathrooms and the general newness of the aircraft. Service wise, I haven't noticed a difference, really, so I don't know what the OP is talking about.
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Originally Posted by brunos
(Post 10965356)
Have you flown on the retrofitted 74A? The interior is brand new and teh bathrooms are awesome, nothing like on the 77A.
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Originally Posted by Pickles
(Post 10965396)
Yes, I have. It is still the same old airframe, though. You are probably right about the bathrooms, I think one of them is pretty big in the 74A. The free-running water is also available on the 77A, it comes with the porcelain "bowl" sinks, with the buttons for cold/hot and drain on the top of the faucet.
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Originally Posted by sxc
(Post 10965400)
Not probably right, definitely right. Both bathrooms on the 747 are the same.
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Bathrooms on 77A
One of the two bathrooms on the 77A appears quite a bit smaller, and seems to be used mainly by the crew.
The best part of the magnificent bathrooms on the 74A are the two windows in each bathroom. The bathroom on the 77A seems dingy by comparison. Sadly, the days of the 74A to North America are numbered. The 77A will never come close to the luxury of the 74A. |
Originally Posted by Pickles
(Post 10965418)
Fine. You still have to share them with 9 people as opposed to 6.
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Originally Posted by Pickles
(Post 10965418)
Fine. You still have to share them with 9 people as opposed to 6.
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Originally Posted by brunos
(Post 10969216)
Two for 9 is allready more than enough. And I believe that the 77A lavs are also used by by the cockpit crew; not the 74A's ones.
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Originally Posted by ACORD
(Post 10964224)
"Flying in First Class on the 77A is truly an unbearable experience...."
With all due respect, this has to be one of the most bizarre statements on FT of all time! To some, a FC flight experience on CX is once in a life time experience. To the OP, that is only a monthly travel he puts himself through. For personal reasons, he has to travel via HKG...thus his love/hate with CX. It's just a matter or familiarity breeds contempt !!! Any little "flaws" become big nuissance !!! |
Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 10959959)
Just curious, -- what do you consider the top five, and what rank would you assign to CX, both with regard to F only?
- Emirates - Qatar Airways - Singapore Airlines Airlines with F product that may be better than CX F depending on personal perferences, in no particular order: - ANA - Japan Airlines - Asiana Airlines - Qantas Airways - Ethiad Airways I think when you consider this list, there are at least 8 other airlines whose current F can best CX on any given day. Notice among these carriers, there are 4 Asian carriers. All except ANA, has introducted their new F in the last 18 months or so. Equipment wise and in terms of the seat, I think CX F is very competitive. What it comes down to and this has really hurt CX is the downgrade of soft products and the service level along with it. For example, serving farmed caviar compared to others who still use very high quality & expensive caviar is a significant difference to those who care about it. Even if you don't care for caviar, what about champagne? CX rarely carries Krug or something equivalent or better. This again puts CX a step below its competitors. In general, the CX F catering is relatively weak these days against most of these airlines. On a typical and recent CX F menu, the same dish is recycled 3 times within a same menu but named differently:
Originally Posted by CX F AMS/HKG
MAIN COURSES
Beef fillet with vegetable crust gratin potatoes, carrot and beans Mushroom filled ravioli with baby mozzarella, tomato and thyme saurce CHINESE FAVORITES Beef shin with carrot and lotus root soup Cold plate – marinated tofu and cucumber salad Stir-fried prawns with mild garlic or Stir-fried chicken with shallots and fermented black bean sauce served with steamed rice, pak choy and carrots SNACKS Braised beef shin with kailan in noodle soup Chicken satay with satay sauce Haagen-Dazs Ice Cream And when you are going to fly those ultra-long haul like JFK-HKG non-stop, you better have an extensive snack list. With CX, the snack list is a joke, some carrier's Business class snack list is more extensive and interesting than the noodle soup served by CX on almost every flight. All these food/beverage and amenities cutbacks really add up. Then there is service, which is highly contingent upon what crew you get. With the talk about a demotivated cabin crew and their poor pay, it is not surprising that some seem to be careless. Against the 8 airlines listed above, CX F service, although good in general, may simply not be good enough when compared to others' more consistent and professional service. You don't ever see ANA F FAs drop a smile or even make a mistake. They are incredibly consistent like clockwork nor will you ever have a problem of them congregating in F galley and chatting loudly. Instead, your every single need is anticipated. For example, you sniffed, one would immediately come over with a package of kleenex. You want to go to washroom, before you even reach there, they are already there to open the door for you. You want to get yourself a drink and as soon as you get up, one already offers to bring one to you. All this, while you never actually see them or feel intruded. How they manage it? It's anybody's guess on how they do it. But that's the kind of competition that CX is up against. So instead of cutting here and there, CX needs to strive to improve itself or else its F is going to go down the same miserable path that BA F suffers, once great but not anymore. |
And I thought that I was a hard grader. Since this is fundamentally a world of IMO and YMMV, I'd like to respond to some of what you wrote, because I actually do like CX F (although, admittedly, I've only flown recent long haul F on AA, BA and CX).
Originally Posted by Guava
(Post 10971338)
Even if you don't care for caviar, what about champagne? CX rarely carries Krug or something equivalent or better. This again puts CX a step below its competitors.
Originally Posted by Guava
(Post 10971338)
Why is beef served 3 times in the same menu in F? Notwithstanding there are many people who don't eat beef, if you look at the Main Meal, for a non-beef eating F pax, there is only ONE choice available and that is the vegetarian dish of ravioli.
Then, for Chinese Favorites (and I assume that people eating both western and Chinese dinners is the rare exception rather than the rule), I see beef in the soup, followed by two mains, neither of which appears to have any beef. Snacks have a beef, chicken and ice cream. Yes, they do appear to use the same beef shin in two, but not three, dishes. There's plenty of variety on the menu. There are two chicken dishes, but you're not complaining about that. I just don't see this as a war crime. I agree with you that service is nearly completely dependent on the crew. I've never had a bad crew on a long haul CX F flight. I remember last year(?) people on these boards were debating the quality of LHR based crew on 250 versus HKG based crew. People were saying that they avoided 250 at all costs. I never took 250 (not because I was avoiding it, rather it just didn't fit into my plans with respect to scheduling), but I fly LHR-HKG four times/year, and have never a bad crew. Same with HKG-LAX. Starting next month, I'll be flying HKG-JFK instead of LAX, and we'll see what happens. I am aware that most opinions have SQ service a definitive notch higher than CX, and I expect to try it late next year for the first time. Popular sentiment seems to indicate that I'll find it superior to CX. But that's a far cry from CX being inadequate in F. YMMV, obviously, but it's not what I've experienced. |
Originally Posted by QRC3288
(Post 10959715)
With the exception of rattling food carts everything is staff related. Disappointing, yes, but as pointed out 1.) it is absurd to think you can avoid this aircraft (they're to be the long-haul staple of CX) and 2.) staff issues are very fixable. Many posters on this thread time and time again have shown dismay with the current CX staffing levels (in F) and quality (in J and Y). Poor training, low morale (very low among the CX FAs I've chatted to in J) and young/inexperienced staff make them do things that defy common sense. I believe CX does itself a disservice to pay their FAs less than KA pays theirs, and I'm not surprised when over the past year I have received consistently better KA service in Y versus CX J. CX F tends to be senior people who are more mature and professional. The only times I've really been angry with service itself (not staff levels and slow service) in F it had to do with J (or Y) FAs coming up from the back as you mention - maybe to get bottled water for J pax, or food for DMs requesting it from J/Y - and making noise as they pass my seat.
I really think it comes down to morale...if I don't like my employer, I don't care about my employer's customers either. A few CX pilots have told me it's pretty sad when they go overseas on long-haul. The good news is everyone (pilots and FAs) get the same per diem allowance, although they have different durations at long-haul ports due to different work-hour rules. FAs are only technically paid for the hours they're on the aircraft, so if you have two 15 hour flights as part of a JFK round-trip but a 4 day layover in between in NYC, you only get paid for 30 hours of work. Since the FAs make so little, they often sit in their rooms and eat as cheaply as possible, because they see their per diem as a supplement to their rather dismal salary, and since they're away from home they see their per diem more as part of their "salary" than a per diem, because even though they're in some far away place it's still work. Yes, obviously the pilots would like to go party with the young FAs, but the point one (married) pilot was making to me was that the crews when doing long-haul don't really bond, even between FAs or ISMs who have a return flight together. He figures this is because everyone is trying to be so stingy with their per diem and eating in their rooms, not willing to go out and do interesting things (that may cost money) in the cities, or go out to restaurants and bars. Likely an over-simplification, but the logic of it makes sense to me. Some FAs have told me the first few flights to long-haul ports after starting at CX are great, but after the honeymoon has worn off they dread them (particularly LAX for some reason). This is because they generally have 5-6 days away from their families and friends in HKG + jetlag when they get home, but because of the pay situation they really can't do anything in the places they visit. So they have 3-4 days of fatigue and boredom as they collect their per diem. The only exception is if they have relatives who they can visit or who can take them out to dinner...otherwise they may spend a good portion of the time in the hotel. Both the FAs and pilots have told me there is little camaraderie, except in the case of really exceptional ISMs who can act like a bridge between the flight crew and the FAs, and the FAs will usually fall in-line with the attitude of the ISM. Again, though, this is fixable, and the bad economic times could possibly make staff thankful for a job - but clearly paying your staff less than what a personal assistant makes in HK with normal hours and normal weekends does not bode well for those of us spending prolonged amounts of time on CX. It sounds like from a few posters here things may get better (and I have had better service lately in J), but let's see |
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