How can you tell, when reading the fare rules on Travelocity, whether HIP (higher intermediate point) applies on a route/fare ?

You can't tell from reading the fare rules.

The only way you can tell would be to compare the fares of each individual segment. Also, where the ticket is and where stopovers are taken also determine whether a HIP applies.

For example:

BKK-HKG-LAX First Class

Fares for each component (the fares presented below are hypothetical):

BKK-HKG $5xx
BKK-LAX $2xxx
HKG-LAX $4xxx

(HKG would the the HIP in the above example)

If ticketed in Thailand (SITI):

1) BKK X/HKG LAX $2xxx
2) BKK HKG LAX $4xxx

If ticketed outside Thailand (SOTO): (This is the reason why no matter how hard you try on travelocity.com, you will never be able to get the chaper ex-BKK fare)

1) BKK X/HKG LAX $4xxx
2) BKK HKG LAX $4xxx


Sometimes the computer systems might overlook the HIP issue (and price using the low fare) as there might not be a fare basis with SIMILAR CHARACTERISTICS in another city pair to compare with. This seems to only happen with the fare is a restricted fare with special conditions. (This is why travelocity.com can price cheap ex-LIS BA "A" class fares [don't know if they fixed this hole yet] even if tickteted outside Portugal). It seems like the way to fix this problem would be to publish higher "A" fares ex-LHR (HIP) with SIMILAR CHARACTERISTICS for the reason of "comparing".

Sorry, but daniellam is wrong on this one.

How to determine if HIPs apply is simply a matter of determining the fare type: all excursion fares should have routings/MPM/stopovers as defined by the fare rules. Tickets designated as unrestricted in the fare type section (e.g. IATA -YY fares) which will show 'Unlimited Permitted' in the stopover field, and will then be subjected to HIP. It's important to remember that many so called excursion fares state unlimited stopovers are allowed, and this is to be taken at face value - HIPs won't be applied; also bear in mind that some unrestricted fares may still be carrier specific for inter IATA-Area travel (e.g. CMB-LAX OZ fares).

HTH

Alex

Anyways, does this menat the HIPs only apply to unrestricted fares which state "STOPOVERS: Unlimited Permitted" and not to those "excursion" or "advanced purchase" fares that say something like "STOPVERS: Permitted at USD 50 each", or "STOPOVERS: Not Permitted in HKG" etc.?

Most of my experience with HIPs tend to be with "F" or "J" fares.

You seemed so confident in what you are saying in your previous post only to be followed by the above... "Anyways" ??

So you DON'T know what you're talking about do you?

Can someone please explain what is a HIP? I don't really understand the actual definition.

Thanks

Higher Intermediate Point.

Basically an enroute destination where the fares originating from there is higher than the original departure point.

ie fares from BKK to USA are cheaper than fares from HKG to USA travelling on CX. Thus HKG is a HIP in fare calculations, and a stopover of more than 24hours is not permitted unless you pay the higher fare .. as though you are originating from HKG.

On economy excursion fares, usually you cannot stop in HKG outbound but certain fares permit stops on the way back. This has nothing to do with HIP but rather exceptions to the rules set by each airline sales department.

Assume OZ "F" fare SFO-ICN-HKG-BKK with HKG-BKK in CX F. Ticket on Asiana e-ticket stock. Ticketed as 23 hour connection only in HKG. Passenger calls CX in HKG on the morning of the HKG-BKK flight and asks to be changed to the flight leaving 3 days later.

Will CX see the passenger in "F" and just make the change?

Assume CX would not have access to the fare rules, so nothing to lookup. Will CX be able to the the /X HKG in the fare construction on the e-ticket?

Does CX need the segment re-validated to 3 days later or will it accept the e-ticket without re-validation? Can CX self re-validate the e-ticket segment as the operating carrier?

CX doesnt make changes to tickets that weren't issued by them.

Changing from X to O is a re-route and requires re-issuance of the ticket.

just curious - how much is this fare ? and is stopover in HKG allowed on the return from BKK ? thanks.

I'm sure it was just an example, but if you really want to know, ITA prices out SFO-LAX-ICN-HKG-BKK at ~$4600 a/i