JW95

Looks like a nice seat overall, although shame about the lack of CX's signature green colour, as it is pleasing to the eye. Given that they will be retrofitting the 77W fleet a second time in recent years, my guess is that we will see an updated premium economy cabin also installed at the same time, perhaps similar to what's available on the A350 fleet. Not anticipating any changes in Y, given that the relatively new 10-abreast seating and new IFE was introduced only in 2018.

lsquare

Does anyone here know?

I love CX's A350. I was able to fly J before the start of the pandemic and it was fantastic. I can't wait to try the new seat should the A350 get it.

​​​​​​​As for the IFE, it's a dinosaur now. UA's upcoming refresh is exactly where CX needs to go with economy. USB-C should be mandatory and hopefully, fast USB charging as well. Free WiFi needs to be the norm before the end of this decade.

djsflynn

Colour: I think we're seeing a similar shift here as on the A321neo, where the business class cabin leans less into that signature 'Cathay green' and into more of a 'premium' palette. I actually rate this as a sign of confidence in that you don't have to be so beholden to the primary brand colour.

It'll be interesting to see what changes flow through to the other cabins, eg premium economy and economy. I expect the new business class to have the same 4K screens with Bluetooth audio streaming as on the A321neo, so will CX upgrade at least the IFE system in economy to the same tech spec, even if the seat remains the same?

lsquare

UA's economy refresh will introduce a new IFE with Bluetooth audio streaming and USB-C. I can't remember if it has fast USB charging, but that should be mandatory going forward. I know airlines don't upgrade their products frequently, but CX feels like about a generation behind UA once it's done retrofitting by 2025.

djsflynn

Come on, mate, you asked this a mere three hours ago and now you're asking again? And is this so vitally important that you must know right now? And do you really think anybody here knows with absolute certainty the fate and timeline of the 777 fleet when the seat upgrade itself was revealed barely 24 hours ago and CX has said not a thing more since?

Seriously... I mean, look, the 777 question may well be put to CX at the FY23 results tomorrow, but if you took just a moment to think about this, wouldn't it be logical to assume that if CX is going to the trouble and expense of putting all-new business class seats into the 777s then those 777s will likely be hanging around longer..? Or do you reckon CX is going this massive capex but will still put the 777s out to pasture in a couple of years?

Look, asking questions is good, I get that, but maybe you could rein it in a bit for the sake of the sanity of many here?

djsflynn

I'd agree 100% with this – you'd really like to expect that USB-C ports which support fast charging should be the norm in all new seats, and you'd certainly like to see wireless charging in any 'premium' business class product (eg maybe not entry-level). I believe Panasonic's newest flagship Astrova systems push out 67w through a single USB-C port (which meets the needs of most compact- to mid-sized laptops) and also support fast charging. So yeah, bring it on!

lsquare

[moderator edit]

I would be happy with even 30w output. Neither my iPhone 14 Pro Max nor my Pixel 7 can charge that fast. Using the current IFEs with the USB-A output takes forever to recharge my phone.

NZflyer777

Looks smaller and narrower than the current seat.

But of course one can only judge once the actualy specs come out.

CX made a huge error in 2007 with its tiny business class seats and quickly changed it in 2010

But yes this does not seem ground breaking or industry leading like the CX first 2007 and CX business 2010
even the a321 economy 2022 is ahead of the rest of the industry.
Its weird not seeing green with Cathay .

lsquare

100%. I like the style of the A350.

Reply1984

I think the red color on A321neo is about KA's red...Then KA was merged into CX, with its A321neo design.

JW95

Just to add to that- I think you can relax knowing that the 77Ws will be here to stay for a long time to come. They are the flagship of Cathay's long haul fleet, and with the first of the 777-9s not arriving until '25 at the earliest, the 777-300ER will continue to play a key role in the fleet going forward, particularly as Cathay continues to add back capacity and reopen routes that were suspended in early 2020. The final 77W was only delivered in September 2015, so they'll still be here

djsflynn

And wasn't that a whiplash of a change! There's such a story to tell behind this, one day I will find the time to write it up!

Probably because the industry has in the decade+ since not only caught up but largely overtaken CX - no fault of CX in that, just that CX happened to lead the charge with what was arguably at the time one of the the world's best business class seat (2010's FB2) in the modified Zodiac Cirrus. Just look at the state of the competition circa 2010.

Then pretty much everyone caught up with 1-2-1 (albeit in an arrangement of layouts and densities), and the successive generation – it's held that a 'generation' in business class is approx 5-7 years (although that's also a common product intergenerational refresh time) – took things more upmarket with sliding doors and other creature comforts, and we are now in that generation of what some call 'business plus' (not my preferred term, more a seatmaker-designer one),

So what's happened is that while Cathay was on the leading edge with 2010's FB2 (internal CX designation, FB= flatbed and this was second-gen flatbed after the Olympus/Hercules generation), the decision to retain and refine the Zodiac Cirrus seat as 'FB2.5' on the A350 – while a completely logical and sensible decision in pretty much every respect – meant Cathay's flagship business class has not really chalked up a significant advance since 2010, yet in that same decade since we've seen this dramatic push towards a whole new generation of business class suites (every year there's so many new ones at AIUX, both in front of and behind the curtains) with doored suites etc.

So yeah, right now Aria doesn't at the face of it look "ground breaking or industry leading" because it seems to deliver most of what's already in the market, and once details emerge Q4/Q1 I'm sure that will still be the case - it'll be right up there with most of the mod cons, but that doesn't make it a 'leap ahead' compared to other top-shelf seats, more of a catch-up to the crown (even if Aria still sits in the front row) and leap ahead from the current CX business class and a true competitor against the bulk of the market.

There's an interesting argument./discussion to be had from this about where does business class go from here – indeed, after the incredible advances of the past 25 years (counting from say 2000's creation of the first business class flatbed by BA/Tangerine and fudging the fact that we're in 2023 not 2025, but hey, that's a few years between mates?) have we reached 'peak business class' (typed by the likes of the QSuite, ANA's The Room and others).

There's a finite physical space in the cabin and the rules of maths which in turn dictate square metres vs revenue – you can't go flatter than lie-flat, you can't fit a larger screen into this fixed physical space (excepting for bulkhead row 'business plus' treatments) - you can optimise space a bit more (Collins Elements has some considered thoughtful touches here), you can play around with the front row (more space, buddy seats, mini-bars etc but this is still limited to one or two rows max).

So focus is turning to what can be done within the space - hence USB-C, fast charge and wireless charge, Bluetooth streaming and even seemingly small things as a little extra storage nook somewhere (eg QF A350 business class 'glovebox'). But none of this is The Big Leap Forward.

Now if Aria is AirTek then it'll enjoy pushing that 'physical space and customer convenience envelope' by freeing up the space below the seat for your cabin bag, instead of having to pop it into the overhead locker. I've seen the AirTek mockups and this is the sort of thing which CX PR can go big on and will get a lot of coverage from – it's a pretty unique feature, it's strongly visual, it speaks to something every traveller can relate to (especially mainstream travellers, and again they're the 99.99% of the market focus here) in 'the struggle for baggage space', and it also leads into AirTek's evolutionary design using lightweight composites and monocoque forming, which (a) is noteworthy and inkworthy because it's cool and new and high-tech, and (b) in turn skews the conversation towards the seat's light weight and thus Cathay's fuel efficiency, saving money (good for CX and the biz pages) and saving the planet (good for most media, and arguably the dolphins too, although dolphins aren't high consumers of blogs and media).

Hmmmm, okay, that's a 4am post-coffee pre--holiday brain dump but it covers a lot of ground which I hope brings some of the issues of the market, competition, product development and even marketing into sharper relief

cmiller11101

Would love to hear it!

brunos

The trend in the industry is to add a door to the J seat and CX is just following that trend.
PLus bigger screens, a few electronic gimmicks and a LIGHTER seat.

NZflyer777

wow thanks
as always the best insight