chinatown

Booked with Asia Miles in Business class on Dec 3 YVR-NRT-HKG on JL 17/736. JL went ahead and cancelled the NRT-HKG leg, and the system automatically rebooked for a flight from HND-HKG on Dec 5. During covid times obviously non Japan passport holders cannot enter Japan so this connection is not possible. What are my options here? I just spent over an hour and a half talking to a Asia Miles CSR and was only given these options

1. Fly YVR-LHR-HKG on BA, which is completely not feasible given its a 9 hour flight in the wrong direction , plus a 12 hour flight in the right direction. On top of that, Hong Kong quarantine laws currently state that anyone flying from the UK to HK are subject to 21 days of quarantine as opposed to 14 days when flying from Canada.

2. Cancel and refund your ticket (no way in hell i'm letting them get off this easily as its a violation of contract)

3. Be put on a waitlist (which inevitably will definitely not clear, because we know during covid times these are simply not clearing). When asked what my options are if the waitlist is still not moving at T-2 days before travel, was told "it is what it is" , and if it doesn't clear, you're simply just going to have to keep waiting, or downgrade to Premium Economy and Economy and waitlist there.

None of these options are feasible for me (or anyone else for that matter). They simply kept refusing to put us on CX837 which was showing with ample availability on Dec 4 and kept repeating that award inventory and revenue inventory are segregated and that there was nothing they could do if JL cancels a segment.

neofung

Can you reschedule your departure date to transit in NRT on wed / sun that NRT to HKG operate?

I think AM has no obligation to put you on their CX metal as it’s not their fault. But you can try another agent to see. I always find the online chat agent is more helpful then the hotline staff.

ovacikar

No, it is not a violation of any contract. This is still international travel reality in Covid times.

chinatown

JL have scrapped NRT-HKG entirely for the duration of the month of december. The only flight that is left is a CX one that leaves at 1645. YVR-NRT arrives at 1630 which renders any connection impossible.

chinatown

They are violating their own conditions of carriage which state that

10.2.2 Except as otherwise provided by the Conventions or other law (where applicable), if we cancel your flight, make a significant change to the schedule, no longer fly to your Stopover or final destination or make you miss your Connecting Flight (on which you have a confirmed reservation), we shall, at your option, either: 24 (a) carry you on our next available flight if space is available without additional charge. Where necessary, the validity of your Ticket will also be extended; or (b) re-route you on one of our flights at no additional charge. If the fare, and charges for the revised routing are lower than what you have paid, we shall refund the difference; or (c) or refund your Ticket in accordance with Article 11.2.

michael_v

Qatar?

FrankieC

OP is flying from Vancouver to Hong Kong. You may want to look at a map.

BRITINJAPAN4

Seems option 1 IS feasible, it CAN be done, but you dont want to .
option 2 is very very normal especially in these times
option 3 is also feasible, but you dont want to accept. So it seems the travel is not most important its the travel in J. In that case wait a few months.

percysmith

1. 10.2.2.2 of CX's own CoC is not applicable to you, JL's CoC 7(B) is https://www.jal.co.jp/jp/en/inter/carriage/ (see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27013315-post31.html and Avios redemption on Sri Lankan, route cancelled as to whose CoC's apply (operating or issuing carrier))
1a. You still go through CX/AM, but they act as JL's agent, not as principal.
1b. In practice they'll behave as if their rules apply, but if you go to SCT, they will be found to be incorrect.

2. A member on t.me/pointstomiles (Dan) managed to obtain reroute from AM from BA back onto CX own metal on 1 Oct.
2a. But usually, CX only concedes own metal rerouting to its elites and force everyone else to take it (CX) to SCT so it can test its Because Of Coronavirus chop https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33181641-post4.html .
2b. Going to TIC in lieu is a waste of time

3. JL 7(B) says it' JAL's option to what they reroute you to, and it you don't like it, you don't have a further option except refund. 10.2.2.2 is more favourable to you because 10.2.2.2 needs mutually agreed, but it doesn't apply in your case.

littlevoices

If they will only give you reward seats then I'd say option 1 is the best to be honest, seems fairly reasonable to guarantee business class. The "UK" restriction only applies if your stopover is more than 2 hours, so it may be possible without the extra quarantine. Personally in these times I'd welcome the chance to get a few extra hours on a plane. Not that I'd want to fly BA over CX given a choice, even in COVID times. I would have thought waitlist chances were high enough into HK to be honest, as not like many people are really taking these flights.

To the OP: If you feel incredibly strongly about this you can buy a direct ticket and then try and sue AsiaMiles later on via a small claims court, you could probably win but it would clearly take time and effort.

chinatown

Thank you for providing an actual proper reply. Understand that JL are the provider of the service in this case and that CX are merely the issuing carrier, but the applicability section of Cathay's CoC seem to suggest that they are responsible?

ARTICLE 2: APPLICABILITY 2.1 GENERAL 2.1.1 Except as provided in Articles 2.4 and 2.5, these Conditions of Carriage apply to all flights operated by us or on flights on other Carriers for which you have been ticketed with us to the extent that there is no conflict between these Conditions of Carriage and the terms and conditions of other Carriers, and in any case where we have a legal liability to you in relation to your flight. 2.1.2 These Conditions of Carriage also apply to free of charge travel, staff travel concession tickets and reduced fare carriage or any flights redeemed under any frequent flyer loyalty programme (e.g. Asia Miles) that we may offer our Passengers, except to the extent that we have provided otherwise.

The thing is that, they are not even providing me with a single viable solution. Obviously playing the "you can get a refund" card, so they can be rid of the problem. Flying to London and playing extra YQ , + Flying in the wrong direction + 7 extra days of quarantine , is NOT a viable solution. Nor is a wait list which never clears.

chinatown

Thanks for replying- Small claims I think is only for cases where someone has a clear claim of a monetary amount against another, which can be hard to establish , given this is a mileage ticket.

Option 1's stopover is 4 hours. and Waitlist clearance if i understand correctly, has been close to 0% for non status members.

percysmith

The reference to eg Asia Miles is only intended to include someone redeeming CX flights from another FFP eg Avios on CX in scope, it’s not intended to include all AM redemptions eg AM on JL. It would create a very confusing situation on which CoC applied.

”to the extent that there is no conflict between these Conditions of Carriage and the terms and conditions of other Carriers” there is a conflict, and JL’s CoC prevails as operating carrier.

In your case, your monetary claim can be established by next available ticket at the time of your cancellation, but you have to actually travel it before SCT will award you the monetary claim. This is different from the Siemen Tsoi case which is about class of service she'll never actually buy for cash https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...l#post30597571 or error fares, you actually were committed to get from A to B (if class of travel is not a factor).

tentseller

There is no more 2 hours transit allowance. Once you get off a plane in group A, you are in group A

brunos

I can understand your frustration. Most pax booking aan award, or even a revenue ticket, have been hit by covid cancellations and bad alternatives.

But I find your resentment towards CX excessive.
JL is the one to cancel the flight. It offers you an alternative. Your personal situation means that you cannot take advantage of it. It is not their fault. Actually most Asian countries (except China/HK) are moving to a "live with the virus" policy and progressively opening up. It could be that Japan will do it by December, so option 0 might be viable.
The earth has a strange shape and flights from YVR tend to all take a polar route, so it not really about right/wrong directions. The BA option is not a silly one. You choose to decline it given the current quarantine situation. That is your personal choice but we don't know for certain what it will be in December.
I assume that you did not book the nonstop CX YVR-HKG because there was no award available and went on the two-segments JL route instead. JL cancelled a flight and awards are still not available on CX837. WHy would you expect CX to now make an exception for you?

I am also flying a CX award soon. I got my share of cancellation/rescheduling but that was on CX to CX.
One should be fully aware that there is less flexibility on awards than on revenue tickets. Nothing new on all airlines. And In these covid times, it does not get better as airlines open few award seats to get more revenue.