Downgrading from "Choice" Award
Oct 9, 2018 | 7:39 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: DTW - Rochester Hills, MI
Programs: Cathay MPC, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Domestic Airline Nobody
Posts: 787
Downgrading from "Choice" Award
First I need to rant. 
/RANT
This "enhancement" of the redemption program sure devalued Asiamiles. Long haul redemptions used to be 145K miles for me. Of course, if you jump on them a year out, you can get them. They were spotty 30-60 days out, but if you were flexible -- and patient -- you could find them. They'd start to show increased availability maybe 3 weeks out, and alot of availability days out. So in June they raise the rate 25%, to 170k. OK... FIne. They claim that they increase availability 20%. Fair enough. But now that I'm living it, I think they were really deceptive. I don't know what increased 20%, but it certainly wasn't any of the availability I seek. Over the years I've studied this, using the hideous Cathay website checking click-by-click for availability, and comparing it to Expertflyer data. So while I certainly don't know the precise algorithms they employ to release seats, I DO have a pretty good sense of when things would open up. I've compared the data I've been collecting for the past month or so to my detailed records over the past 5+ years, and the claim that the 25% increase in mile "cost" was coupled with 20% increase in availability is highly unlikely.
I have discovered that that the "Choice" awards seem to more closely mimic the availability of the past. So if that's the case, then Cathay has DRASTICALLY devalued Asiamiles from practical standpoint. In the past we could earn one J ticket after 7 paid trips. Now it takes 14 paid trips! What we used to be able to "buy" for 145K miles now costs 270K miles. Huge 85% devaluation.
/ENDRANT
Phew... with that out of the way and my pent-up frustration expelled, I was thinking of a strategy to try to counteract this devaluation.
I know we can book redemptions, and later cancel them. You can either leave the ticket OPEN by rescheduling it. OR, you can cancel it, pay a fee, and have the miles deposited bank in your bank,
I was thinking about booking a ticket using the ridiculously expensive "Choice" award. And then when the travel date gets close, (depending on availability) book a SECOND award ticket at the more reasonable "Standard" rate, and then cancel the "Choice" award.
I imagine this would be possible. But I'm wondering about the timing of the point exchange. For example, a one way "Standard" is 85K, and a one way "Choice" is 135K. So in my example, would they allow me to (in a single transaction) cancel the Choice, pay the fee, "buy" the Standard with the miles from the Choice, and deposit the balance of the miles (135K - 85K = 50K) back into my bank? I know it worked like that when you wanted to UPGRADE (ie, go from redemption J to redemption F), so why wouldn't this work?
Of course, this is all subject to availability.
And if they don't allow the immediate crediting of the miles, I think you'd need a good bank of miles to pull this off. Like 440K miles. For a roundtrip you'd need 270K miles to buy the original "Choice" redemption, AND you'd need the 170K miles to buy the "Standard" redemption. And then wait for the 270K miles to be recredited to your account.
In either case I imagine you'd need to spend a lot of time on hold with MPC.
/RANT
This "enhancement" of the redemption program sure devalued Asiamiles. Long haul redemptions used to be 145K miles for me. Of course, if you jump on them a year out, you can get them. They were spotty 30-60 days out, but if you were flexible -- and patient -- you could find them. They'd start to show increased availability maybe 3 weeks out, and alot of availability days out. So in June they raise the rate 25%, to 170k. OK... FIne. They claim that they increase availability 20%. Fair enough. But now that I'm living it, I think they were really deceptive. I don't know what increased 20%, but it certainly wasn't any of the availability I seek. Over the years I've studied this, using the hideous Cathay website checking click-by-click for availability, and comparing it to Expertflyer data. So while I certainly don't know the precise algorithms they employ to release seats, I DO have a pretty good sense of when things would open up. I've compared the data I've been collecting for the past month or so to my detailed records over the past 5+ years, and the claim that the 25% increase in mile "cost" was coupled with 20% increase in availability is highly unlikely.
I have discovered that that the "Choice" awards seem to more closely mimic the availability of the past. So if that's the case, then Cathay has DRASTICALLY devalued Asiamiles from practical standpoint. In the past we could earn one J ticket after 7 paid trips. Now it takes 14 paid trips! What we used to be able to "buy" for 145K miles now costs 270K miles. Huge 85% devaluation.
/ENDRANT
Phew... with that out of the way and my pent-up frustration expelled, I was thinking of a strategy to try to counteract this devaluation.
I know we can book redemptions, and later cancel them. You can either leave the ticket OPEN by rescheduling it. OR, you can cancel it, pay a fee, and have the miles deposited bank in your bank,
I was thinking about booking a ticket using the ridiculously expensive "Choice" award. And then when the travel date gets close, (depending on availability) book a SECOND award ticket at the more reasonable "Standard" rate, and then cancel the "Choice" award.
I imagine this would be possible. But I'm wondering about the timing of the point exchange. For example, a one way "Standard" is 85K, and a one way "Choice" is 135K. So in my example, would they allow me to (in a single transaction) cancel the Choice, pay the fee, "buy" the Standard with the miles from the Choice, and deposit the balance of the miles (135K - 85K = 50K) back into my bank? I know it worked like that when you wanted to UPGRADE (ie, go from redemption J to redemption F), so why wouldn't this work?
Of course, this is all subject to availability.
And if they don't allow the immediate crediting of the miles, I think you'd need a good bank of miles to pull this off. Like 440K miles. For a roundtrip you'd need 270K miles to buy the original "Choice" redemption, AND you'd need the 170K miles to buy the "Standard" redemption. And then wait for the 270K miles to be recredited to your account.
In either case I imagine you'd need to spend a lot of time on hold with MPC.
Oct 9, 2018 | 8:41 am
#2
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
First I need to rant.
/RANT
This "enhancement" of the redemption program sure devalued Asiamiles. Long haul redemptions used to be 145K miles for me. Of course, if you jump on them a year out, you can get them. They were spotty 30-60 days out, but if you were flexible -- and patient -- you could find them. They'd start to show increased availability maybe 3 weeks out, and alot of availability days out. So in June they raise the rate 25%, to 170k. OK... FIne. They claim that they increase availability 20%. Fair enough. But now that I'm living it, I think they were really deceptive. I don't know what increased 20%, but it certainly wasn't any of the availability I seek. Over the years I've studied this, using the hideous Cathay website checking click-by-click for availability, and comparing it to Expertflyer data. So while I certainly don't know the precise algorithms they employ to release seats, I DO have a pretty good sense of when things would open up. I've compared the data I've been collecting for the past month or so to my detailed records over the past 5+ years, and the claim that the 25% increase in mile "cost" was coupled with 20% increase in availability is highly unlikely.
I have discovered that that the "Choice" awards seem to more closely mimic the availability of the past. So if that's the case, then Cathay has DRASTICALLY devalued Asiamiles from practical standpoint. In the past we could earn one J ticket after 7 paid trips. Now it takes 14 paid trips! What we used to be able to "buy" for 145K miles now costs 270K miles. Huge 85% devaluation.
/ENDRANT
Phew... with that out of the way and my pent-up frustration expelled, I was thinking of a strategy to try to counteract this devaluation.
I know we can book redemptions, and later cancel them. You can either leave the ticket OPEN by rescheduling it. OR, you can cancel it, pay a fee, and have the miles deposited bank in your bank,
I was thinking about booking a ticket using the ridiculously expensive "Choice" award. And then when the travel date gets close, (depending on availability) book a SECOND award ticket at the more reasonable "Standard" rate, and then cancel the "Choice" award.
I imagine this would be possible. But I'm wondering about the timing of the point exchange. For example, a one way "Standard" is 85K, and a one way "Choice" is 135K. So in my example, would they allow me to (in a single transaction) cancel the Choice, pay the fee, "buy" the Standard with the miles from the Choice, and deposit the balance of the miles (135K - 85K = 50K) back into my bank? I know it worked like that when you wanted to UPGRADE (ie, go from redemption J to redemption F), so why wouldn't this work?
Of course, this is all subject to availability.
And if they don't allow the immediate crediting of the miles, I think you'd need a good bank of miles to pull this off. Like 440K miles. For a roundtrip you'd need 270K miles to buy the original "Choice" redemption, AND you'd need the 170K miles to buy the "Standard" redemption. And then wait for the 270K miles to be recredited to your account.
In either case I imagine you'd need to spend a lot of time on hold with MPC.
/RANT
This "enhancement" of the redemption program sure devalued Asiamiles. Long haul redemptions used to be 145K miles for me. Of course, if you jump on them a year out, you can get them. They were spotty 30-60 days out, but if you were flexible -- and patient -- you could find them. They'd start to show increased availability maybe 3 weeks out, and alot of availability days out. So in June they raise the rate 25%, to 170k. OK... FIne. They claim that they increase availability 20%. Fair enough. But now that I'm living it, I think they were really deceptive. I don't know what increased 20%, but it certainly wasn't any of the availability I seek. Over the years I've studied this, using the hideous Cathay website checking click-by-click for availability, and comparing it to Expertflyer data. So while I certainly don't know the precise algorithms they employ to release seats, I DO have a pretty good sense of when things would open up. I've compared the data I've been collecting for the past month or so to my detailed records over the past 5+ years, and the claim that the 25% increase in mile "cost" was coupled with 20% increase in availability is highly unlikely.
I have discovered that that the "Choice" awards seem to more closely mimic the availability of the past. So if that's the case, then Cathay has DRASTICALLY devalued Asiamiles from practical standpoint. In the past we could earn one J ticket after 7 paid trips. Now it takes 14 paid trips! What we used to be able to "buy" for 145K miles now costs 270K miles. Huge 85% devaluation.
/ENDRANT
Phew... with that out of the way and my pent-up frustration expelled, I was thinking of a strategy to try to counteract this devaluation.
I know we can book redemptions, and later cancel them. You can either leave the ticket OPEN by rescheduling it. OR, you can cancel it, pay a fee, and have the miles deposited bank in your bank,
I was thinking about booking a ticket using the ridiculously expensive "Choice" award. And then when the travel date gets close, (depending on availability) book a SECOND award ticket at the more reasonable "Standard" rate, and then cancel the "Choice" award.
I imagine this would be possible. But I'm wondering about the timing of the point exchange. For example, a one way "Standard" is 85K, and a one way "Choice" is 135K. So in my example, would they allow me to (in a single transaction) cancel the Choice, pay the fee, "buy" the Standard with the miles from the Choice, and deposit the balance of the miles (135K - 85K = 50K) back into my bank? I know it worked like that when you wanted to UPGRADE (ie, go from redemption J to redemption F), so why wouldn't this work?
Of course, this is all subject to availability.
And if they don't allow the immediate crediting of the miles, I think you'd need a good bank of miles to pull this off. Like 440K miles. For a roundtrip you'd need 270K miles to buy the original "Choice" redemption, AND you'd need the 170K miles to buy the "Standard" redemption. And then wait for the 270K miles to be recredited to your account.
In either case I imagine you'd need to spend a lot of time on hold with MPC.
Oct 9, 2018 | 10:13 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: CX DM, SPG Pt, Le Club Accor GO, Shangri-La GC Jade
Posts: 1,327
No... No need to have any fantasy.
As once you cancel your "Choice" award seat it likely will first goes to another "Choice" waitlist-er, then the "Standard" waitlist-er in order. For J and F there'll be companion redemption waitlist-er ahead and upgrade waitlist-er as well.
As once you cancel your "Choice" award seat it likely will first goes to another "Choice" waitlist-er, then the "Standard" waitlist-er in order. For J and F there'll be companion redemption waitlist-er ahead and upgrade waitlist-er as well.
Oct 9, 2018 | 10:29 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: DTW - Rochester Hills, MI
Programs: Cathay MPC, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Domestic Airline Nobody
Posts: 787
For example, there are some "choice" seats available 30-40 days out. I think I could snag one early, and I think MORE "standard" redemptions will likely become available a week or less out.
So I would NOT be planning to give up a seat unless there was another already available. And none would show as available if there was any sort of waitlist.
Oct 10, 2018 | 3:00 am
#5
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SFO/HKG
Programs: ex-UA 1K, AA EXP, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 543
Yeah, the 20% increase in availability is non-existent. Perhaps the alternative is look at booking OW award tickets with other carriers. If I could choose to fly JAL over CX, I would do so 10 out of 10 times.
Oct 15, 2018 | 9:17 pm
#6
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,115
And if they don't allow the immediate crediting of the miles, I think you'd need a good bank of miles to pull this off. Like 440K miles. For a roundtrip you'd need 270K miles to buy the original "Choice" redemption, AND you'd need the 170K miles to buy the "Standard" redemption. And then wait for the 270K miles to be recredited to your account.
Last time I went the other way - I killed Mum's Standard award to put her on Priority 2 two days later, all because my brother won't let my niece cut band practice or take her own transport so he can pick up Mum instead. I didn't have enough miles in Mum's to fund both a Standard and a Priority 2 so I did the instant refund.