Dr. HFH

Yes. Having flown both CX F and QR J a lot, IMO the only area in which CX F is better is the seat/bed.

Mike P

Very interesting. I've flown QR J a lot and like it a lot but have not tried QSuites yet. I've flown CX J and enjoyed it and had assumed that CX F would be a step up from QR J.

Paella747

Did you drink on the plane?
I haven't flown QR J recently, but I don't remember better champagne and/or whiskey than CX F.
Has QR upgraded their booze, or has CX downgraded in the last month since I last flew them in F?

Mike P

Having just looked at an example CX F wine list for 2018, it appears that the wines are vastly superior to QR J and indeed BA F.

Dr. HFH

I totally agree that the Lanson and Drappier are both awful. But since I don't drink much (or at all on QR), that doesn't really factor into my carrier choice.

Mike P

Yes, hardly comparable to Krug on CX or indeed LPGS on BA in F.

QRC3288

Not really true!

Besides the bling Champagne which gets touted on every blogger website, Qatar's J class still white and red wines are often on par with CX F, and usually are more abundant in quality. The standard on CX used to be to have one bling red (often Lynch Bages), one high quality Burgundy white, as well as another quality red and quality white of varying appellation / varietal. But this has steadily eroded in the last decade and accelerated in the last 5.

Now CX's "bling" red is often a decent-but-not-great Bordeaux house (usually too young or not very great vintages....for example I had Ducru Beucaillou 2012 I believe earlier this year on CX. Emirates F last month was serving 1985). Now to be fair I see some recent menus, and they have Bages 2008 and Branaire Ducru 2006 which seems an improvement! But I'm not holding my breath until it becomes more consistent. (My last CX F segment was in March, and I usually fly 6-10 longhaul F segments a year.) But this isn't my biggest issue. The greater problems are below.

Where CX really sucks in F is the "everything else" category. They blow the budget getting praise for bling Champagne and perhaps a respectable Bordeaux, and then drop the ball everywhere else. The white Burgundy has gone from excellent villages to inferior ones. (And for a while, white Burgundy disappeared altogether). The remaining white is often an awful, heavily oaked California Chardonnay I might avoid cooking with. For people who care about price, I've seen a $10 or less retail bottle as CX's backup white wine. For red, the standard protocol is have two more random wines, neither which stand out except for being much much cheaper than the bling stuff.

Essentially, there is clearly zero curation of the CX wine list is my feeling. Qatar J makes a helluva lot more sense to me, even though they lack a bling Champagne and bling red (although at times over the last 5 years, Qatars top J red has been on par with CX's). Personally, I would rather have a well curated list where everything is decent quality than the crazy peaks and valleys of CX's F wine list. Just from years and years of flying CX F, it seems the last 5 year trend is just to have the typical bling drinks and then cut everywhere else.

Sauternes has come and gone. It's back now. It rarely stays long.

For whisky, I don't drink much but I suspect CX deserves credit for usually stocking a reputable single malt + JW Blue. Other more familiar posters can comment. Wine is my thing.

If I try to parse my thoughts more clearly, I'm not flying F to "try" Krug or Bages or have one bling drink. I lament the (inevitable) trend of bloggers price-comparing influence of F Champagne becoming the end-all of wine list quality. Because on CX, I see the budget just cut elsewhere on the list, and I really care about the whole list. I want a balanced, quality wine list to pair with my food and have a variety of good options depending what I'm in the mood for and what I'm eating. CX F totally fails in this respect. Qatar J, despite having inferior top shelf stuff, is regularly on par or even better IMO.

CX's F competition has them beat handedly. And often their J class competitors are on par and have more abundant, balanced lists.

In CX J class, the lists are terrible. Undrinkable wines for the most part and miles behind the airlines CX considers competition.

Dr. HFH

To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy with Veuve yellow label. It's perfectly drinkable (IMO); I find it quite light and pleasant, if not a superstar. Beats Lanson and Drappier hands down. Just checked some prices, -- the Veuve yellow label is only USD $6 more than Lanson black label, and Veuve Rosé is only USD $9 more than the Drappier, both for the 750 ml. bottles at retail.

dodgeflyer

QR was serving Branaire Ducru 2009 before Christmas. I worry about the increasingly recent vintages of airline Bordeaux stock. Whilst I get tying up vintage Bordeaux is now pricier than ever it does mean lots of airlines will be serving increasingly worse wine until they see the ‘value’ (which may be never) in having a proper cellar.

QRC3288

Wow, there you go! So QR J is indeed serving superior reds (at times, at least) to CX F top red. Lol.

So it really just comes down to having a bling Champagne. And CX knows this is where they get their bang for the buck. Pretty disappointing but this is reality, especially with the microphone the reviewers and bloggers have and their obsession with focusing on the Champagne. But man I wish this weren't so. I'd gladly accept a cheaper Champagne in F if it meant we'd get one or two more quality choices in still white and red.
​​​​​​

PacificSunrise

Believe Sauternes is gone again - didn't see on all 4 of my flights this past week (LH and SH). Putting price/cost aside, was told silent majority (which included myself) preferred port (even mediocre ones) over Sauternes, so now they have Graham's.

Agree on terrible wine in J - which is sad as more wine than champagne is consumed on board at least across airlines. JW Gold in J is quite good.

QRC3288

Agree with your points. Except on the port it makes me grimace: it's certainly convenient for CX to say port is preferred by the "silent majority" when their solution is LBV! Not all port is created equal. LBV is a step up from Ruby. Both are mass produced, not great and (convenient for CX) really inexpensive. I love tawny and vintage port. Hell Emirates serves 40 year Tawny in F. That is great stuff. But LBV 2012 Graham's or whatever they're serving is, in this flyers cynical opinion, their BS way to be cheap and pretend they're doing the right thing. (Althogh LBV always has a "vintage" year associated with it, it is about as close to true vintage port as Cathay is to Ryanair).

If they really felt people preferred port buy some vintage or 20 year Tawny in bulk. Both of those can be acquired for the cost of Sauternes and are well-made wine. I love port too but I can't give CX a pass here.

feh

I did HKG-DOH-MIA on QR (not Q suites, but J) and thought it was a notch above where CX J used to be (i.e. before CX started slipping)

The trade-off really depends on layover times and the like. When I flew QR (Jan/Feb this year), schedules across the Pacific were pretty horrendous for domestic leg(s) in USA. Against which, for MIA-DOH-HKG there was a 9 or 10 hour layover. Having said which , I used this layover to head into town for a few beers with a friend/ former colleague.

Not sure the "long way round" would be worth it when weighed against a non-stop direct flight.

Also, IIRC QR just had Y & J on both HKG-DOH and MIA-DOH & vv.

brunos

I also had Branaire Ducru in QR J five months ago (also at lounge).
My most recent QR flight had a lesser known Bordeaux, but quite enjoyable (I don't remember the name).

HarbourGent

Like Br​​​​​​​unos I also had Branaire-Ducru recently in QR's J lounge in Doha. It was the 2013 but I was still pleasantly surprised as the previous time I had had it was on CX F short haul, albeit an older vintage.