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Originally Posted by seawolf
(Post 28991488)
If CX wants to reissue, they issue new ticket on CX stock for the affected flight coupons. The original flight coupons is updated with status E (Exchanged) in both CX and AS systems. This is the end state for these coupons; neither AS or CX can do changed or board passengers with them anymore.
Note that I'm writing flight coupon(s) and not ticket. If OP ticket is SFO-HKG-AKL and return AKL-HKG-SFO, the change would apply only to flight coupon(s) for SFO-HKG (and HKG-AKL if applicable), the flight coupons for AKL-HKG-SFO don't change as CX doesn't haven airport control of those until return day of departure. The same applies across IATA airlines whether it's AA rebooking me on AC between YUL-LGA or AF changing my ticket DL EWR-ATL-DUS to KL JFK-AMS-DUS. |
Originally Posted by txflyer77
(Post 28991797)
Currently sitting in the PPL arrivals lounge at HKG.
I arrived back at SFO just before counters opened for the midnight CX flight. Sounds like non-redemption customers were reaccommodated on other airlines and I was the only one they downgraded. I received US$390 in cash from the station manager and was told I'd get the difference in miles back (20k AS), but I'm not totally convinced they realized this was an AS ticket and not an AM redemption, so I expect to be arguing this between the two airlines when I get home. At one point the station manager mentioned getting a refund to my AM account. While it would've been nice for them to at least offer rerouting me through LAX, or not to summarily reject the idea, realistically I came out ahead in this deal. CX F is definitely better than CX J but the difference is mostly in soft product and $390 buys a pretty nice meal and bottle of wine on the ground. I've flown both products several times. Really my only complaint is that my noise-canceling headphones were on the fritz. All AS knows just looking at the SFO-HKG flight coupon status is that it was used; they don't know you sat in J. They would likely have to reach out to CX to confirm you sat in J once you informed AS what happened. |
CX can change a non CX-issued ticket on the day of flight, keeping the same ticket number.
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Originally Posted by seawolf
(Post 28991488)
What I do not realize is the "verbal commitment," "customer consent," "turned to CX at the back" point(s) being made. As mentioned before, OP mentioned he was in person at SFO (assuming he has passport) and asked CX staff to changed from CX SFO-HKG to CX LAX-HKG; not SFO-LAX-HKG. How is that more risky than changes thousands of people make each day over the phone? In person with matching passport is more secure than any authentication that can be done over the phone/online. When flight coupon is under operating carrier (CX) control, flight coupon has status of A (Airport Control) in validating carrier (AS) system and status of O (Open) in CX system. AS can't do anything while flight coupon has status of A. CX can do as they please (so to speak) as flight coupon is in status O. If AS wanted to reissue, they "take back" control of flight coupon(s). Once that is done, the flight coupon shows up with O status in AS system and CX doesn't even have access to the flight coupons unless they request airport control of them again (assuming new AS flight coupon is still on a CX flight). If CX wants to reissue, they issue new ticket on CX stock for the affected flight coupons. The original flight coupons is updated with status E (Exchanged) in both CX and AS systems. This is the end state for these coupons; neither AS or CX can do changed or board passengers with them anymore. Note that I'm writing flight coupon(s) and not ticket. If OP ticket is SFO-HKG-AKL and return AKL-HKG-SFO, the change would apply only to flight coupon(s) for SFO-HKG (and HKG-AKL if applicable), the flight coupons for AKL-HKG-SFO don't change as CX doesn't haven airport control of those until return day of departure. The same applies across IATA airlines whether it's AA rebooking me on AC between YUL-LGA or AF changing my ticket DL EWR-ATL-DUS to KL JFK-AMS-DUS. When I checked yesterday around the time of my first post, there were at least a total of 4 F seats available distributed between the two CX LAX-HKG flights (one in the evening and one right after midnight). Maybe they were oversold in lower cabins; I didn't check. If I were the manager, no way would I ever take over the control of the ticket and reissue the ticket in CX stock with AA flight in it. Bear in mind CX can only book straight into award inventory of AA instead of full Y, because this was the award ticket. You couldn't book them straight into full Y or even F in AA flight. The fact that OP got immediately shut down indicated CX generally won't rebook to partners in the middle of equipment change. Links below indicate very clearly compensation is what CX would do: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...nt-change.html https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...or-travel.html I don't know about OP, but people can complain about the airline forcing them to fly to LAX then taking LAX-HKG when they couldn't be accommodated them to fly out of SFO, even if OP said he was willing to go down to LAX by himself. Even if CX reissued the tix on their ticket stock to fly out of LAX, customers can complain about CX changing their flight to ex-LAX without consent. Verbal commitment cannot easily audited or investigated. With all things considered, I don't see why and how CX are willing to reaccommodate OP to ex-LAX F flight, especially when OP is not even OneWorld Sapphire/Gold member, and most importantly on an award ticket. |
Originally Posted by PaulInTheSky
(Post 28993057)
Refunding the cost difference(mileage difference) or putting the affected passengers into another flight from the same origins and final destinations was the easiest way to get this done, especially when the issue in hand was equipment change instead of mechanical or flight cancellation.
If I were the manager, no way would I ever take over the control of the ticket and reissue the ticket in CX stock with AA flight in it. Bear in mind CX can only book straight into award inventory of AA instead of full Y, because this was the award ticket. You couldn't book them straight into full Y or even F in AA flight. The fact that OP got immediately shut down indicated CX generally won't rebook to partners in the middle of equipment change. Links below indicate very clearly compensation is what CX would do: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...nt-change.html https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...or-travel.html I don't know about OP, but people can complain about the airline forcing them to fly to LAX then taking LAX-HKG when they couldn't be accommodated them to fly out of SFO, even if OP said he was willing to go down to LAX by himself. Even if CX reissued the tix on their ticket stock to fly out of LAX, customers can complain about CX changing their flight to ex-LAX without consent. Verbal commitment cannot easily audited or investigated. With all things considered, I don't see why and how CX are willing to reaccommodate OP to ex-LAX F flight, especially when OP is not even OneWorld Sapphire/Gold member, and most importantly on an award ticket. As for verbal commitment....you are stating people lie. That applies to anything. <Fill in name of anybody> asking friend/spouse/sister/assistant/concierge to telephone <fill in name of any airline> to changed routing/origin/destination airport and then passenger shows up at original airport claiming who changed my reservation. Passenger decides to sue, <fill in name of any airline> produces recording of telephone call authorizing the change and judge will say that does not sound like passenger. It turns out that the risk of this scenario does not stop airlines from selling airline tickets over telephone or the internet. And the bit about not being a "OneWorld Sapphire/Gold member." I hope you are not seriously saying that as a OneWorld Sapphire/Gold, CX would more likely go with rerouting CX SFO-HKG to CX LAX-HKG. Award definitely didn't help but ticket reissuance was not an obstacle and neither was OP potentially backstabbing CX. |
CX should be able to always create a new ticket on their own stock. Accounting-wise the agent just have to put the right IRROPs code in and all should have been resolved.
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1) all the OP said was F3. Unless someone here knows for sure J, PEY or Y weren't oversold, I don't see why this is complicated - very possible the ex-lax plane the OP wanted was oversold in the back. And no CX isn't going to IDB people to accomodate someone in the OPs position. Any of us CX regulars to North America know well just how much these flights can be oversold in the back. In extreme cases sometimes 20+ people. CX usually builds in a nice cushion up front, but they still will sell F in many cases even when Y is oversold. It's "cruel" math but true. Even if CX knows selling one extra F seat means someone extra in Y might be IDB, they'll take the 10k USD in revenue for that one way ticket. But they won't give that same seat to a +$400 extra partner F award ticket, because IDB someone has high cost.
2) credit to the OP, he/she sounds satisfied with the comp anyway! Sounds reasonable all around. But anyway, without knowing the actual loading on that LAX plane I think all the folks arguing about the technicalities (although I've learned a lot! ) are missing the point....very possible the reason CX wouldn't reroute isn't for all these technical reasons, but because the damn plane was nearly or totally full due to an oversell in another cabin. In which case a refusal to accommodate his/her request to take a flight ex LAX makes perfect sense! |
In my experience, CX certainly differentiates between (at least non-CX) redemptions and revenue tickets for re-accommodation during IRROPS. They seem to be not allowed to endorse redemption tickets onto other airlines.
>8h delay on HKG-MXP-LHR in F (AA stock): I was denied re-accommodation on other airlines departing in the same evening "because it is a redemption". The LHR non-stop flights had departed or were full in F, if I recall. I was instead accommodated on CX non-stop HKG-LHR departing on the following morning. Overbooked flight LHR-HKG-ICN in F (AA stock): Seeing the "we are overbooked in J, please let us know if you would like to travel in PY for a huge compensation" notice at check-in, I casually mentioned that I would be willing to travel on a different airline. They got very excited and told me they will let me know in the lounge, but eventually came to tell me that they couldn't re-accommodate me on a different airline "because it is a redemption". |
Originally Posted by seawolf
(Post 28993770)
I say again....There is no AA to HKG or AA to LAX or AA to any city. OP asked for CX SFO-HKG to CX LAX-HKG.
As for verbal commitment....you are stating people lie. That applies to anything. <Fill in name of anybody> asking friend/spouse/sister/assistant/concierge to telephone <fill in name of any airline> to changed routing/origin/destination airport and then passenger shows up at original airport claiming who changed my reservation. Passenger decides to sue, <fill in name of any airline> produces recording of telephone call authorizing the change and judge will say that does not sound like passenger. It turns out that the risk of this scenario does not stop airlines from selling airline tickets over telephone or the internet. And the bit about not being a "OneWorld Sapphire/Gold member." I hope you are not seriously saying that as a OneWorld Sapphire/Gold, CX would more likely go with rerouting CX SFO-HKG to CX LAX-HKG. Award definitely didn't help but ticket reissuance was not an obstacle and neither was OP potentially backstabbing CX. OP was not even OneWorld Sapphire or Emerald. I am saying exactly that. What you said was true. The airline would still try to sell the seats when they may not prevent people from stating their own lie. But at the end of the day, terms and conditions clearly did not mention equipment change was a part of IRROPs, hence requiring to rebook the passenger to another flight. 2. Rebooking Please refer to Fare Structure and Booking Class. Rebooking is under these conditions. 1). Change of flight (including other carriers) 2). Change of date 3). Extension of ticket validity 4). Change of class 5). Change of stopover / transfer point 6). Rerouting QRC3288 made a good point. However, my point being is CX should not accommodate what OP is asking, due to all the technical difficulties involved, or like QRC3288 said, possible oversold of the ex-LAX flight. |
Originally Posted by PaulInTheSky
(Post 28995351)
Your argument that 'ticket reissuance was not an obstacle' when OP asks for a different origin, without calculating the fare and route rules was incorrect. When CX did not even attempt to investigate the nature of tne award tix(AM, AS, or other OneWorld FFP-based), it tells you all you need to know.
OP was not even OneWorld Sapphire or Emerald. I am saying exactly that. What you said was true. The airline would still try to sell the seats when they may not prevent people from stating their own lie. But at the end of the day, terms and conditions clearly did not mention equipment change was a part of IRROPs, hence requiring to rebook the passenger to another flight. 2. Rebooking Please refer to Fare Structure and Booking Class. Rebooking is under these conditions. 1). Change of flight (including other carriers) 2). Change of date 3). Extension of ticket validity 4). Change of class 5). Change of stopover / transfer point 6). Rerouting QRC3288 made a good point. However, my point being is CX should not accommodate what OP is asking, due to all the technical difficulties involved, or like QRC3288 said, possible oversold of the ex-LAX flight. I’ve already demonstrated that CX reissuing an AS ticket is very well possible and is done by IATA airlines everyday. This does not prevent CX from changing origin/destination. The fare rule for AS award for SFO-HKG is the same as LAX-HKG. CX is not encountering a hard obstacle (eg ticketing/accounting/availability/regulation) or otherwise prevented by IATA rules in changing origin/destination. Only thing left is only the “willing” part. Perhaps your “technical difficulty” is actually referring to “CX policies” such as ticket being award redemption warrant no OAL rebook or no rebook on other CX flights due to alternative flights being oversold in lower cabins or involuntary downgrade not considered IRROPs etc. Based on responses from other members, it sounds like CX was able but wasn’t willing to reaccomodate. |
Originally Posted by seawolf
(Post 28996048)
I’ve already demonstrated that CX reissuing an AS ticket is very well possible and is done by IATA airlines everyday.
What actually happens and how does it get communicated to AS's system, if at all? |
Messaged AS on twitter and they’ve deposited the 20k miles into my account. Issue is closed for me.
The rest of you can keep on arguing about ticket endorsements and oversold flights. I have a vacation to start. :p |
Originally Posted by txflyer77
(Post 28996307)
Messaged AS on twitter and they’ve deposited the 20k miles into my account. Issue is closed for me.
The rest of you can keep on arguing about ticket endorsements and oversold flights. I have a vacation to start. :p cxfan1960 CX CoMod |
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