warakorn

It should be quite common knowledge that there are special visa waiver rules for large Chinese cities in place, if one transits via these cities to a 3rd country.
(e.g. 144 hours for Shanghai).
CX is a Chinese carrier.

What happened: the CX contract staff at SIN looked completely clueless, when mentioning this rule.
They insisted that the passenger must have a visa for China. After some time, the agents explained that the passenger can stay for 144 hours at PVG airport, but only within the airport transit area. Since, the flight to a 3rd country (not CX) shall take place after 5 days (staying in Shanghai for 5 days), CX refused checking in the passenger, because a passenger cannot stay for 5 days in the transit area.
An intense verbal battle ensued.

Ok, I may get it if we are dealing with an airline, which flies just once a day to China.
But CX - they have a hub in China + a gazilion of flights into Mainland China. They should know the rule.
Moreover, the CX agents at SIN explained there is no global visa desk, which they can call to clarify the rule.

Eventually they were saying that HK immigration may not allow the passenger through.
We are talking about a SIN-HKG-PVG itinerary.
What has HK immigration to do with that?

Am I missing something here?

kaka

Cx is a hong kong carrier and not a chinese carrier.

And as to wheter they know the rules... you have a sin hkg pvg hkg sin ticket innit
or do you have a sin hkg pvg (hinterland) ticket

warakorn

2 tickets:
1) SIN-HKG-PVG on CX
five days in Shanghai
2) PVG-FRA on LH

As far as I am concerned that routing should be eligible for the visa waiver.

CX agents are saying that there is indeed a visa on arrival facility at PVG. But they don't issue exit visa at PVG, hence, I need a visa to enter Shanghai (Mainland China).
That is their logic.

One may argue whether HK is China or not. However, CX/KA has so many flights into Mainland China. This transit visa waiver rule should not be sth. new, but apparently it caught the CX contract agents at SIN completely off guard.

The practical problem:
What can a passenger do in such a situation?

ajeleonard

Have a printout of the rules and also ask the staff to consult TIMATIC where they are written out as well. Particularly in Asia where there may be a reluctance to loose face by caving, after initially making an incorrect assertion. I wouldn't expect contract staff at an outstation to be up to speed on every facet of the rules

warakorn

They have consulted TIMATIC. I saw it.
But they interpreted the rules as if the passengers is only allowed to transit and stay within the international zone of PVG airport (PVG doesnt have a real transit zone in T2), but not to enter Mainland China.

HarbourGent

How did you solve this?

warakorn

Currently, it is not solved.

If this would be an EU airline, I would be quite relaxed, because I am protected by EC261/2004 - and I know how to enforce that.

But we are talking about CX. I have no chance against them.

I am familiar with the saving face situation in Asia. However, the contract agents haven't even acknowledged their mistake or acted on it.
In this situation I have noted the names of the most obnoxious agents.

Well, I have involved the helpful Singapore Police on that matter. They have achieved getting CX to issue valid boarding passes at least until HKG. They seem to be people the contract agents respect. My hope is that the agents at HKG are more knowledgeable. Tomorrow I'll tell you more.

kaka

If u have seperate tickets they have more incentive to believe you may just not fly the second ticket n ask for a refund.

best way around is to avoid china. between singapore and frankfurt there are a handful of airlines that offer better connections. And if u need to take advantage of going thru such lawless country then all is packaged into one

do remember cx as a hong kong company suffers the most from china from random delays. What they did were simply protecting themselves in case you overstayed ur twov.

kaka

you cant blame them. You are flying on 2 tickets. You are not transitting in china on the face value of your tickets.
buy another ticket that avoids china next time.

if you had read the aa thread tgey hv another situation on usa-xpvg-otyo-(short stopover in tokyo on same or diff ticket)-usa. Which is also nogo for twov. Its clearly chinas problem. Why blame cx?

china may admit you but thats due to their ignorance to their own law.

andersonCooper

Similar discussion on AA forum for your reference:

China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread

However, it's highly recommended that you apply for Chinese visa, regardless of length of your stay.

kaka

hkg and pvg is in diff country for iata purposes. In fact we are of a different country when those cheats see fit. So what you quoted is correct.

what wasnt right was, the failure to demonstrate the layover being a transit.

warakorn

I am taking your advise under consideration. This topic comes up quite frequently on FT. Hence, once I have more time I'll elaborate that topic with other people here on FT.
Well, a Chinese friend has offered me to clear this thing up with the Chinese embassy in Singapore on the topic of 2 tickets.

andersonCooper

Yes the quote was deleted since it also says the non-China part of itin could be ignored.

warakorn

What is your point?
How did I fail in demonstrating the layover. I have provided CX with my LH e-ticket printout.

MSPeconomist

There's a lot of misinformation here. OP is clearly eligible for TWOV = transit without visa. It's not visa on arrival and, in fact, I wouldn't call it a visa waiver. It's simply transit without visa and is allowed on separate tickets.

BTW there's an excellent big sticky TWOV thread in the China destination forum here on FT.