Does anyone know what, if any, relationship exists between Cathay and DragonAir. Are they two completely seperate companies? Shared ownership? Since all KA flights seem to be listed in the Cathay timetable there must be some relationship?

rich

Although I suspect GuyBetsy can tell you more, here's what I recall:

1) Cathay Pacific has a minority stake, with the majority controlled indirectly by the Chinese government (the Chinese government also has a minority stake in Cathay Pacific).

2) At the time of Dragonair's formation, it was given the exclusive Hong Kong carrier-based right to fly to mainland China. Cathay Pacific had to cede some routes to Dragonair.

3) Hong Kong aviation policy (in line with its tendency to favor cartels), allows only one HKG based carrier to fly to a given destination. In the past, Dragonair tended to get the lighter traffic routes.

4) CX and KA have joint fares on many routes, although KA has recently expressed its intention to take CX head on (KA has several larger aircraft on order).

That's all I know and some of what I don't. Hopefully GuyBetsy can correct the inaccuracies.

Plus there is a non competitive agreement between the two airlines which has come under threat of late with both airlines looking to grow their network coverage.

KA was established by CX as a subsidiary. It is closely held between CX, Swire and CITIC.

It was originally established in order to divvy up China and Taiwan flying. CX was not going to be permitted to continue flying to both the mainland and Taiwan. Rather than give up one, they turned over all their mainland flying to a subsidiary, and kept the Taiwan flying (since it fit better with their established North Asian structure).

Over the year's KA has picked up some additional flying--mainly smaller Asian centres like Hiroshima. After the handover in 97, CX turned over KHH so that there was again a Hong Kong carrier serving both Taiwan and the mainland.

Historically and politically, the Peoples Republic of China was not going to allow a British flagged carrier to fly between (in Chinese eyes) two domestic Chinese cities [Hong kong and Xiamen for example].

So KA was started as a way around this. The seed for KA was CX but open competition between them are still a dream. Ironic isnt it, No airline competition in Hong Kong!!

On a related note, if possible, could someone enlighten me on why there are two types of carriers vis-a-vis China/Taiwan?

I mean, one group setting up subsidiaries just to serve Taiwan (and a few other locations), while they themselves fly to China. This group includes BA, JL, KL and SR (any others?).

Other airlines, meanwhile, fly both to Taiwan and China like U.S. carriers UA and AA.

Isn't this the "One China, Two Airlines" policy ?

AA isn't going to fly into China, but CP (now AC) does fly to both.

BA and JL have separate subsidiaries flying their Taipei routes? If I recall, BA flies HKG-TPE a few times a week.

hsi.chang, thanks for correcting me. Right, AA hasn't been granted a route to China. I guess CP/AC does not use a subsidiary.

(A further digression. I noticed AC's BKK office (space) sharply expanded. I wonder if they are planning a comeback after CP discontinued BKK-HKG earlier this year.

Hi, fallinasleep,

JL has a subsidiary EG (Japan Asia Airways) for Taipei routes from Japan and onto HKG, I think.

Maybe I was wrong to describe them as 'subsidiaries' for BA, KL and SR.

BA's HKG-TPE is served by so-called British Airways Asia. KL and SR use aircraft with similar corporate colours but with some Chinese characters on the tail or somewhere.

This is a bit trivial but I was just curious why in the world they go all the way to set up different operations for Taiwan. Two Chinas, for sure, but why some do and why some don't. Just out of curiosity ....

[This message has been edited by Chiangi (edited 11-29-2000).]

Because of the conditions on their landing rights within the PRC.

Air services agreements are negotiated on a bilateral basis. Whether or not an airline can fly into both Taiwan and the PRC depends upon the air services agreement entered into by its government and the government of the PRC. (Taiwan, typically, has not place restrictions of this type in their ASA's).

So AC can serve both CKS and BJS/SHA, but BA cannot.

Another cavet is that even thought British Asia Airways seem like the real thing, it is still treated like a poor cousin. As an example, the new Club World flat-bed seats are now available BA HKG-LHR, but not on the BAA flight TPE-HKG-LHR.

Chiangi, AC*SE and hsi.chang

thanks for the clarification...

[This message has been edited by fallinasleep (edited 11-29-2000).]

Thanks, AC*SE. It prompts me to ask further questions but I should refrain as it just keeps digressing from FFP. Thanks, all.

That's why God invented e-mail. My address is in my profile.

hsichang,

the TPE-HKG-LHR and HKG-LHR on BA (BAA) are physically the same plane. what is available on one sd be on the other, maybe BA just miscommunicated or misprinted