G-CIVC

Some of you may know that I was very fortunate to have recently been able to join MPC. I got an additional call sometime after all was settled afterwards from a higher-up (manager?) of some sort who extended a personal welcome, and in our conversations exchanged about how they thought it was rare for someone to be so enthusiastic about their new program, admitting that there was some sort of a loss of elites following the changeover. The person then assured that they were looking to introduce some additional benefits soon. I believe that was also what Cathay Dragon 666 got told about earlier ago in another post.

What sort of benefits do you think would be practical and welcomed from both MPC's and your own perspective? I think the new program is not too bad and is comparable to peer OW programs, but there are a few on top of my head:

- DM on the way to requalifying should get GO mid-tier benefits, etc for other tiers
- extra RDM (Asia miles) for higher tier elites, be it just 25%/50% for GO/DM
- I wish there was some sort of lifetime recognition, but there seems to be some unpublished ones now (?)

What are your thoughts?

Ausriver

Guarantee seats. Y is nothing special, most airlines are doing it for top tier members. V is a bit too generous and since V is no longer the full earning economy fare in cp, K class seems more reasonable, will sure make MPC a better program.

QRC3288

There needs to be some reason for DMs and GOs to go with MPC and fly CX instead of go with a competitor OW program and fly CX. The simple fact is MPC is inferior.

There are tons of folks on this board offering suggestions that, to me are not in CX's best long-term interest.....basically, the gist of this (contrived, IMO) argument is that CX should treat OWE / DM or OWS / GO the same. The arguments range from this party in status treatment helps CX because of operating leverage (seat would go empty without partner), branding, other partners already fly CX and pay CX a lot anyway, etc. But I don't think any of my suggestions below do much if anything to HURT partners. They simply elevate MPC. And if folks are really spending big bucks on CX consistently but credit elsewhere for obvious reasons, well those folks might be incentivize to swap to MPC, like yourself, if the program was actually worth its salt and raised the bar.

Obviously folks of other programs prefer the present state of things because they can earn more miles and status faaaarrr easier than they would on MPC, but basically have all the same benefits using the competitor OWE / OWS. The reason this is bad for CX is the inferiority of MPC stops guys like me, and others like me (most of my peers are in a similar situation), from spending our full budget on CX. Plenty of folks I know in HK spending 50k USD + a year on CX, and almost universally the belief is CX had gone downhill and is subpar compared to the regional competitors. We are loyal for convenience and schedule and good longhaul hard product, but nothing else. If the opportunity presents itself to take JL, SQ, EK and BR I do. All of us are flying competitors with ever greater frequencies and spending cash elsewhere, and I am willing to bet on it we are the higher yield customers CX is wondering why are we drying up. We could be convinced to return to spending more on CX if they'd just do a few of the things they previously did. Some listed below. When MPC was more valuable.

Here are my wishes. I know some aren't permitted (or looked fondly upon) by OW, but whatever.

Priority boarding for DMs and F only on ALL flights (including those longhaul flights with 3 class planes), a lounge for DM and F only, award seats out of cash inventory for DMs, lounge access even when we fly non OW airlines, lounge coupon benefits can be used by anyone on any airline (not just redemption group on OW), taking away the dumb caveat for the seat guarantee, publicizing the op-up priority and GO should be ahead of OWE, consistently release special inventory for Asia Miles only (or restrict partner inventory within a certain window), re institute seat blocking for DM and GO only, and cut some Asia Miles prices where they're obviously being undercut by American credit card points brigade (mainly longhaul F and J to be competitive with Alaska and American).

Some aren't feasible. Others were around before. All the whinging aside, I'm confident all of the above enhance the value of MPC and CX will sell more miles. Not holding my breath as I said in other posts.

But end of the day, CX owns the real value here. They own the metal, the service, the routes, the frequencies, and the slots at HKG. These are what the partners are booking, these reasons are why I can't totally ditch CX, and THIS is the hardest part and real value. CX is in the driver's seat. They should blatantly favor of MPC to the extent they can. Because this is a global world, and if MPC is strong that just falls straight to CX's bottom line. However, it takes some serious adjustments and hard work. The quick fix is just leave things as-is, stay addicted to the partners, and MPC just kinda flails around in irrelevance indefinitely. They're missing out on huge value with the program because MPC ultimately is in bed with the real valuable asset underneath....Cathay.

mxr

Fully agree with G-CIVC on getting the SL/GO mid-tier benefits on the way to DM. While the SL mid-tier benefits are quite useless to me, the 4 bookable upgrades are welcomed and it's been discussed here before that some people deliberately stop at the mid-tier GO benefits instead of going for DM even when they easily could, just because the added value of those is greater to many than being DM.

Not so sure about the extra RDM, I think this is more of a US3 carrier kind of benefit and we don't see it that much anywhere else. I believe LH M&M gives you 25% extra RDM + EQM once you hit "FTL" (equiv. to SL). But for me this would just be an additional benefit and not detrimental.

Lifetime recognition would be great.

Also fully agree with Ausriver on the guarantee seats. K would be a decent and reasonable booking class for Y since its usually quite flexible already. When a flight is zeroed out I would wonder if many people would want to go for a Y class full-fare ticket instead of just looking for an alternative airline that might have J class for the same price as you're paying for the full-fare Y on CX.

In line with what QRC3288 is saying, I believe that decreasing the service level for partner elites would'nt hurt partner-driven loads at all. When you are flying through HK there really isn't a better choice than CX for destinations within Asia. When I was mostly flying with star-alliance I still had to fly with CX plenty of times due to a vaster amount of options from/to HK. Flying, say HKG-XMN would either mean KA or MF with no star-alliance options, so in that case the obvious choice would be KA. Therefore, it doesn't really matter for a OW flyer coming from UK/US flying to these destinations.

Unfortunately due to OW regulations I'm not sure whether CX could ban EM's from getting F priority boarding as well as F lounge access.

Seat-blocking seems to be something so easy and so important to implement. Time and again it kills my mood when I'm sitting on a long-haul destination flight, loads are not high but somehow I end up sitting in a row thats filled up while someone else gets to have 3 seats or so for themselves because of a stroke of luck. I'm sure the ISM/FA's are fully aware of the situation but there is nothing they can do for you at that point..

jagmeets

Actually MPC tier linked bonus Asiamiles for flights on CX/KA metal might be a half decent idea. The cost is probably not too high as I'm sure that the percentage of total Asiamiles issued for CX/KA flights, vs other earn avenues is small, and you're giving a direct incentive for sticking to CX/KA metal.

Post the MPC changes- they are still my primary program, but a lot more of that status is now earned via flights on other oneworld carriers (EU flights for me, for example..tend to be on QR, rather than CX)- quite certain that there's a decent number of people in the same boat as me. While a lot have migrated to other programs, CX would be incentivizing me to stick with them more, besides giving a lot of HKG based flyers (who would otherwise, like Asiamiles more- given the relative ease of using them on CX/KA vs using Avios/Qmiles etc..) something to think about.

And I think that's something most carriers do..here in SIN for example, SQ silvers earn a 25% bonus for SQ/MI flights, but not for *A flights. SQ silver is utterly useless, but I do burn a fair few SQ miles, so that is something wifey & I think about at times. Golds and above get the the bonus across *A flights. If CX want to really dangle a carrot, something like a 25/50/100% RDM bonus would make a lot of people value sticking with CX metal more.

Just to put someone in a spot ..QRC3288..do you think that CX would get back a bit of your business that they've lost if they did something like this?

d00t

CX should stop trying to copy other programs, and stop employing "airline people".

Personally, I would start talking to members by the bucketload, ask the right questions to the right type of member, get management buy-in to MPO as a revenue driver for the airline (the current program dis-incentivizes B/H/Y fares - ironically enough, yield has dropped). Asia Miles and MPO need to be one unit, and most importantly - start leveraging the available assets which is NOT currently happening.

Embrace a true data-driven culture and capatilize on the millions of members who, collectively, have more brainpower and more ideas than the small MPO team will ever dream up. Start from the outside in and not the inside out.

Bringing all these concepts together will allow for a clearer vision for the future of the program.


Won't happen. Too many restrictions on how MPO is currently set-up. Also, there may be Oneworld implications, especially if MPO is reporting a high complimentary status base.

Doing so would have a flow on effect to other areas of the business. Suddenly, that transit through HKG as a OWE looks less attractive, and thus, perhaps flying JL or MH becomes more attractive. For non-CX flights with OWE access, it would have a negative impact on revenues as well. I doubt that any perceived benefit to DMs would be appreciated to the degree that their spend would increase to cover the loss of OWE entries.

sscywong

I think at a minimum, the mid-tier benefit for the immediately lower tier should be offered as a renewal benefit for elite status i.e. Mid-tier GR / SL / GO benefit for renewing SL / GO / DM... Else as many has mentioned why need to rush or even MR to renew DM instead of keep themselves as a high CPs GO and get the mid-tier GO benefit?

Miles inflation is too serious so I don't think it's meaningful either...

I'd rather as QRC3288 said make several fare bucket seat guaranteed for redemption by say GO and DM... Maybe N for GO and L for DM? But that may post endless argument for 5500 as L may be sold out in HK but still wide open in say Taiwan....

Agree... Maybe... SL Invite or GO Invite?

Actually I'm still using guaranteed Y / W / J at least once every month... Of course it's business trip.... And I believe this has achieved what CX wants to do with guaranteed seat...

Would they get more of my business if they lower the guaranteed seat to say K? I'd say no because as you said it's likely that I've already moved to alternative flight since leisure trip usually is more flexible for me (for business let's go Y so it's indifferent)

F priority boarding doesn't hurt much... Banning F lounge access? See QR...

Fully agree with you on this. This is simply annoying and mood-killing on a flight when I see there's so many empty seats (sometimes even window seat) when the E or F seat next to my D or G seat was occupied

eponymous_coward

Heh. "F*** you, FTers, I want mine, go sit in steerage with the peons and stay out my MY lounges! You shouldn't be flying in a first class cabin unless I give permission!"

24left

Living on this side of the pond, even with all of my flight to HKG, SIN and NRT/HND plus with domestic and transborder flying, MPC is not an option for me. However, I was just thinking how amusing it is that I fly paid business class on CX and credit to AA, and that CX is the majority of my earned AA miles etc.

As for the F lounges, someone must know the percent of non CX pax that are visiting.

I would say that even if you are a OWE, if you are flying CX J, and spending the money on CX - not the other OW carriers - perhaps F lounge access should be included.

However, I am not sure what the OW agreement is between the various airlines as to which privileges they must extend to everyone of a certain OW tier. Also, OWE is a higher tier to achieve than *A Gold so the OW benefits should be a bit better.

How do you think CX values its FF program or its high-value customers?. If CX sees its customers as valuable for the present and future, they could consider additional benefits. If, like AC and the US3, they consider their customers to be self-loading cargo and as expenses to be reigned it, I'm not sure improvement will come.
.

QRC3288

Yes, this really captures my meaning. From what I read on here it seems like there are many AA etc fliers who spend a good amount of cash on CX, and possibly even earn a large amt or even majority of their status and miles on CX metal.

So, CX needs to ask themselves: how is it that MPC is so inferior these folks aren't choosing MPC?

Yes, CX earns lounge revenue from these partner pax. But don't forget CX is paying AA for those miles AA issues each time a partner sticks their FF number on the ticket. And a far bigger issue is the value of MPC stays limp as this pax flies CX nut credits to AA, while AAdvantage has a captive customer, not to mention all his data. It is a huge opportunity lost for CX.

To jagmeets point above, yes sweeteners of any type will help me be more loyal. The main problem for me is that the incremental DM benefits have been watered down over the near decade I've been DM. Don't get me wrong, I haven't missed the ABSOLUTE benefits we all get in that time: far better frequencies and new destinations, awesome lounges, and good long-haul hard products in J and F. But the RELATIVE advantage I have flying CX over others has declined. Two reasons why: 1) a lot of competitors also have great frequencies and new destination growth, and 2) CX has blatantly watered down the DM benefits in the last decade, many alluded to in mine and others' posts above and elsewhere. So my relative "benefit" flying CX - from my perspective as a longtime DM member - vs CX's competitors isn't what it once was. So, naturally my spend is starting to skew to CX's competitors too. Just common sense.

Which leads to my final (rhetorical) point: what mechanism does an airline like CX have to induce us to spend more? Especially since it isn't practical to do something crazy like have a DM only section of the plane? Well, the answer is easy of course: have a better loyalty program. And in this global world with airline alliance, your loyalty program does need to be competitive against your peers. So you have something to offer passengers to keep them loyal spenders on YOUR metal. This is just common sense. MPC is just being badly utilized.

Some of my suggestions above aren't practical. But they at least jog the thinking process that there ARE levers CX could easily pull or consider to pull that allow them to "sweat" their existing assets harder in order to benefit those they determine are spending the most cash on their airline. It is FAR easier for CX if CX could assume their top tier of spenders were naturally MPC Diamond, instead of some of the theories in here - likely accurate - that many significant spenders on CX are NOT actually MPC members! Instead they're competitor members because MPC sucks. It's almost comical to write this out given how obvious it is and inept CX is at missing the plot.

Any half-brained business should want to know who its customers are, and control that relationship. NOT farm that relationship out to one of your direct competitors ("frenemies" in the case of an alliance partner).

G-CIVC

Much like 24left I've been a binge-CX-paid-J partner OWE until I switched to MPC, so I can resonate that it doesn't sound sensible to segregate OWE+J.

How about stealing just half the idea from QR, i.e. a paid J + OWE and DM lounge (so some twist from QRC3288's suggestion). I think SL relegated to just one lounge might make sense too but seems that the complaints lean on F lounges being overcrowded, not J

And for partner OWE vs MPC, I have found it not significantly harder to keep DM for one that flies mostly in CX paid J. Of course reaching there is difficult and that's another story...

G-CIVC

I think in 24left's case CX doesn't earn lounge revenue unless he flies the AA HKG-LAX/DFW services...but with dozens of EXPs on those flights, and dozens of BA Golds on the two BA LHR flights, QR Plats on the DOH flights etc...I can imagine CX does earn a handsome amount from charging OWE flying partner metal (since according to Rami Tamimi OWE flying CX metal = CX does not gain any $)

I think it will be great if we can have something like minicab or 1A/2A for DM/(GO?) only...but it might not be a pleasant scene to be in a compact environment with 7 other loud and demanding DYKWIAs

KACommuter

I would find MPC more attractive (and travel on CX metal more) if:
- Bonus miles are awarded for CX metal vs. other OW on MPC;
- AND preferential flight redemptions for (say) DM as in the past. Without this, accumulating more miles is useless.
- 24 hour guaranteed seat in K, not just Y.

Unfortunately for CX, both of these cost real money. Many of the "negligible cost" ideas are nice to have but won't make MPC much more desirable e.g.:
- Less crowded lounges.
- Shorter boarding queues.
- Block next seat in Y if the flight isn't full.

These generate a warm and fuzzy feeling for me rather than being decisive.

QRC3288

I forgot one thing in my post above, reminded to me by other posters:

*another "easy" thing to give DMs and GOs would be preferential seating, like the mini-cabin on 77H and perhaps 2A or 1A in F.

I find other airlines I irregularly fly do something like this (BA and JL I think? I'm certain some seats in F (BA/JL) and J (JL) aren't available to me unless I pay full fare or am some type of their elite?), and to be honest I don't mind at all. It feels "fair" to me. If I'm paying full freight, great. If I'm on an award ticket, I get it they're favoring their cash customers or own elites.

I wish CX would do this, or any of the other ideas I listed above, as did others. Doesn't have to be all and some are more extreme. But how else can MPC enhance itself while it's pretty inferior to most other OW programs?

Moscowflyer

Lifetime Diamond
"Won't happen. Too many restrictions on how MPO is currently set-up. Also, there may be Oneworld implications, especially if MPO is reporting a high complimentary status base."

I don't think there's an issue with a complementary status base. I am well on the way to BA Lifetime Gold. I fly and credit my points to BA once I'm passed 1,800 on CX since there's no reason to earn more than that with CX and the points are wasted unless I credit them to BA's program.

I'd like the ability of DMs to acquire (at least) some Asia Miles seats from revenue inventory - definitely a valuable element of the programme to me.

And yes, I think CX should favour its own elites more, we spend our money on the airline and it's tougher than most airlines to get status on so respect that loyalty and perhaps give us a bit more than they do for the AA frequent credit card user.