What is the future of Cathay first class?
Dec 22, 2016 | 2:49 am
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold/OW emerald, QR
Posts: 17,062
After flying paid La Premiere on AF and having absolutely loved it, here are my thoughts...
CX should follow what AF does.
1. Reduce the number of first class seats even further (maybe 3 or 4 seats in one row).
2. Limit award redemptions only to those who are in the higher tiers of the MPO program and charge them ridiculously high rates. No award redemptions for Oneworld partners.
3. Encourage passengers who might not want to pay full fare to book at lower discounted and restricted fare fares (with high change fees and cancellation penalties) with advance purchase requirements of 135, 90, 50, 28 and 14 days before departure (the fare is more expensive closer to departure). [That's how I got to fly paid AF F]
4. Have a separate and more private first class lounge at HKG just for first class passengers.
5. Offer superior ground services like escorts through security and immigration while cutting all the lines.
CX should follow what AF does.
1. Reduce the number of first class seats even further (maybe 3 or 4 seats in one row).
2. Limit award redemptions only to those who are in the higher tiers of the MPO program and charge them ridiculously high rates. No award redemptions for Oneworld partners.
3. Encourage passengers who might not want to pay full fare to book at lower discounted and restricted fare fares (with high change fees and cancellation penalties) with advance purchase requirements of 135, 90, 50, 28 and 14 days before departure (the fare is more expensive closer to departure). [That's how I got to fly paid AF F]
4. Have a separate and more private first class lounge at HKG just for first class passengers.
5. Offer superior ground services like escorts through security and immigration while cutting all the lines.
it is losing a lot of money but is important for marketing purposes. AF image was atrocious among premium pax given the mediocre hard product.
Also AF only has 76 new F seats on sale in the foreseeable future (19 77W with 4 seats each). CX has a multiple of that and must make it semi-profitable.
I fly about 4 times a year in CX F and always got all seats occupied. CX F is a wonderful reward to all those pax who log a large number of paid longhaul J. Following AF policy to make F award levels outrageous defeats that purpose.
And recently AF changed its pricing policy as planes were flying empty in F (except for pilots family and politicians) with fares that were set at astronomic levels. They now provide all kinds of discount fares. CX has been doing that for a while.
Dec 22, 2016 | 3:59 am
#77
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,151
Only 50% more? I thought it was closer to 133% more
Compare the first section of the two variants of 77Ws:
http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...300er-77g.html
http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...300er-77h.html
77G: 26 J seats
77H:
8 J seats, I will adjust to 12 given there are more galleys in the back of the 77H first section that the 77G puts in the second section
6 F seats
Net: 14 J seats for 6 F
Each F seat occupies 233% the space of J i.e. 133% more.
Compare the first section of the two variants of 77Ws:
http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...300er-77g.html
http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...300er-77h.html
77G: 26 J seats
77H:
8 J seats, I will adjust to 12 given there are more galleys in the back of the 77H first section that the 77G puts in the second section
6 F seats
Net: 14 J seats for 6 F
Each F seat occupies 233% the space of J i.e. 133% more.
Dec 22, 2016 | 4:03 am
#78
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,127
Or try another measurement. On my monitor:
- the 77H and 77G both have roughly 32mm cabin width, so I assume the maps are of the same scale
- first cabin and business cabin have same cabin width
- two rows on business is about 12mm length on my monitor
- two rows of first is about 20 mm
So (including aisle space)
- each J seat is roughly 48 sq mm
- each F seat is roughly 106.67 sq mm, 222% of J (122% more)
Where did you get your 50% from?
Last edited by percysmith; Dec 22, 2016 at 4:10 am
Dec 22, 2016 | 4:31 am
#79
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 3,087
Is the door positioning different between 77G and 77H?
Or try another measurement. On my monitor:
- the 77H and 77G both have roughly 32mm cabin width, so I assume the maps are of the same scale
- first cabin and business cabin have same cabin width
- two rows on business is about 12mm length on my monitor
- two rows of first is about 20 mm
So (including aisle space)
- each J seat is roughly 48 sq mm
- each F seat is roughly 106.67 sq mm, 222% of J (122% more)
Where did you get your 50% from?
Or try another measurement. On my monitor:
- the 77H and 77G both have roughly 32mm cabin width, so I assume the maps are of the same scale
- first cabin and business cabin have same cabin width
- two rows on business is about 12mm length on my monitor
- two rows of first is about 20 mm
So (including aisle space)
- each J seat is roughly 48 sq mm
- each F seat is roughly 106.67 sq mm, 222% of J (122% more)
Where did you get your 50% from?
Dec 22, 2016 | 4:32 am
#80
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 3,087
Most North American outports (ORD and LAX i know for sure, not sure abt the rest? JFK will have AA exclusive F check in soon too). I really appreciated that gesture last time I got to use it.
Dec 22, 2016 | 8:14 am
#81
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, Marco Polo Gold
Posts: 1,084
But yes, if airlines can bring that benefit as part of the F class ticket, that is a great plus.
Jan 27, 2017 | 7:16 pm
#82
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36
How "bad" is it now?
I have an upcoming AA redemption, booked after the devaluation, coming up. After reading this doom-and-gloom I'm less thrilled. How "bad" has the service gotten and will the FAs really know I'm an FF ticket and will the service be therefore lesser? Yes I know the amuse is gone and I'll get a box of chocolates instead of a plate.
Jan 27, 2017 | 8:36 pm
#83
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
I have an upcoming AA redemption, booked after the devaluation, coming up. After reading this doom-and-gloom I'm less thrilled. How "bad" has the service gotten and will the FAs really know I'm an FF ticket and will the service be therefore lesser? Yes I know the amuse is gone and I'll get a box of chocolates instead of a plate.
Jan 27, 2017 | 8:52 pm
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: Denver DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold Royal Air Maroc OW Emerald Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 22,540
I have an upcoming AA redemption, booked after the devaluation, coming up. After reading this doom-and-gloom I'm less thrilled. How "bad" has the service gotten and will the FAs really know I'm an FF ticket and will the service be therefore lesser? Yes I know the amuse is gone and I'll get a box of chocolates instead of a plate.
It will be fine and most likely great. Even my short YVR-JFK flight a couple of weeks ago was fabulous.
Jan 27, 2017 | 9:42 pm
#85
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 8,245
I have an upcoming AA redemption, booked after the devaluation, coming up. After reading this doom-and-gloom I'm less thrilled. How "bad" has the service gotten and will the FAs really know I'm an FF ticket and will the service be therefore lesser? Yes I know the amuse is gone and I'll get a box of chocolates instead of a plate.
For a casual CX flier or someone without anything invested in the long term trends l of CX (IE, those of us who live in HK and have limited nonstop choices), there is absolutely nothing to worry about. These threads and blogs are great but have the unfortunate side effect of completely distorting reality, especially for the casual traveler.
Jan 28, 2017 | 3:45 am
#86
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WAS/ Silver Spring, MD,USA
Programs: UA/AA
Posts: 857
For the occasional traveler seeking a top notch F experience, I would suggest trying JAL if their routes can be incorporated into your plans. The food is definitely better and the seat/ bed is superior in my opinion. The service is quite excellent also. Perhaps the lounges are not as flashy as Cathay , but how much time are you actually going to spend in the lounge versus in the air?
Jan 28, 2017 | 6:00 am
#87
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
I have an upcoming AA redemption, booked after the devaluation, coming up. After reading this doom-and-gloom I'm less thrilled. How "bad" has the service gotten and will the FAs really know I'm an FF ticket and will the service be therefore lesser? Yes I know the amuse is gone and I'll get a box of chocolates instead of a plate.
Jan 28, 2017 | 9:39 am
#89
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,127