This is related to a post over on the AA thread, here's my question:

Some of us were surprised that a recent HKGJFK flight remained at F4 up until departure, with award space never made available. In fairness, the flight was zero'd out in J. But based on numerous observations, it seemed unusual for CX not to release any unsold F inventory for partner awards. The flight had been F4 for several consecutive days.

So, my question is this: does CX's upgrade waitlist (i.e. for passengers wishing to use Asia Miles to upgrade from revenue J tickets) sync properly with the release of award space? I was wondering if this could explain why awards were never made available; there was such a robust waitlist that the seats logically remained for sale up until departure but CX wisely (in my view) didn't want to turn award space over given their own members trying to upgrade.

FWIW, American's own system is NOT this smart, and awards are often released despite top-tier members being on waitlists. I believe this is also a flaw (in my view) of SQ's system. But I'm far from experienced with CX.

Just curious. Thanks in advance - Jamie

Here's how it works. Hope this helps.

The Asia Miles waitlist gets first dibs on awards....but it clears at midnight I believe the night prior to departure.

Then, there is a second waitlist called "Instant Upgrade" at the airport. It is the identical concept and cost to us - we burn our Asia Miles to upgrade a cash ticket, at the same rates we would if we were cleared earlier - except it is first come, first serve at the airport to AM members, with elite ranks trumping (ie DM>GO>SL>GR>AM no status) regardless of when you show up. This has led folks like myself )who often try to burn our AM for F upgrades) to whinge because the first list clears. Sometimes I was #1 in front of a DMs on the waitlist, but I often show up at the airport (particularly outports) at the last minute and I've been trumped by a DM who showed up earlier.

There is no "talking to" the two systems that I know of, because otherwise I figure I could get my damn spot on the Instant Upgrade waitlist if I was #1 on the long-term waitlist! However, although they don't talk to each other, no doubt CX can see the normal waitlist has xx members on it. If there are multiple AM people on the first waiting list trying to score awards, plus J is oversold, CX can probably make a reasonable assumption that F is going out full of MPCs, ideally via Instant Upgrades but op-ups as well if necessary.

All of the above said, sometimes I've been on the first waitlist and watched as seats were released into inventory, bypassing the waitlist. This is an annoying mistake in CX's system. MPC is supposed to contact us and I'm not sure all the technical details, but sometimes they simply don't get in touch and that inventory goes out as if the waitlist doesn't exist.

Very useful and informative. So that's your theory as to why a flight remained F4 right up until departure?

One possibility for sure.

Another is there was a flight cancellation around yours or some type of connection issue with inbound passengers they knew about and you didn't.

A third is related to the rumors flying about CX cutting back on partner award space, but that's pure speculation. My sole anecdote is a friend frequently pays cash for what I think are AA award tickets on CX to/from LAX - someone or some company sells them to him, and he doesn't accrue miles on them. He told me the situation has gotten incrementally harder, especially if trying to "buy" two AA award tickets on the same flight.

CX is also just packed to the gills these days. More paid customers.

If CX feels that J or even lower cabins may be oversold, they will hold on to the F inventory for potential op-ups.

There can also be passengers doing upgrades (even until departure for instant upgrades) or using upgrade vouchers. There can also be ID or planned staff travel on that day.

Ah ... so that's how it works once the list is transferred to the airport. I've never really paid attention to these things. I guess I should make an effort to show up early instead of just-in-time to board.

I'm also curious about one thing. Do waitlists become stale?

I had that 10-month HKG-YVR waitlist T-5 not clear even though seat was available http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post24966618 . I had to rebook it manually.

OTOH I had experience where I create a waitlist for pax B which I already had confirmed for pax A, cancel the itin of pax A shortly after the waitlist was created, and pax B will immediately clear http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post24713062

I also recently had a waitlist for a public holiday clear on me about T-320 (I created the waitlist T-360). The flight is still sold out for new redemptions.

Is there a "freshness" criteria to this?

In theory they're not supposed to....but in practice I bet they do, especially if there are IT, policy, or other changes that require some updating to the systems. Always a risk an error or an accidental loss of the waitlist could happen. I mean, the waitlist function doesn't even work 100pct properly even when there are no changes going on in the background...

That's an interesting point I never thought of, probably because I've never waitlisted that far out....now that I see you type it, I'm sure plenty of folks do, especially families. If you're on a long term AM waitlist, I think it's highly recommended to check in at least once every few months.

Just to add another data point, I had my long term waitlist for J/PE/Y for my HKG - SYD this week not automatically clear and had to redeem it manually when CX released the additional seats at T-7.

Quite annoying.