moondog

The more conservative -- fuel wasting -- solution (e.g. CJU approach to PVG) has been an option throughout this entire period, BUT the flight plan must be filed 3 days in advance (therefore a gamble).

alphaod

My flights last Friday and Monday morning all were on-time with no delays.

Though I have found morning flights are usually on-time though, so perhaps I just had the right flight. I'll see again this Friday.

CXFlyerBoy

Thanks and I will be looking forward to your updates as reference points.

CaptainCajun

Sitting at gate on CX347 PEK-HKG, 2 hours and counting, no indication of departure time from ATC.

DernierVirage

I was wondering what was happening to your flight. I check the timimg of 347 most days as I take it very frequently and it is usually very reliable, and I can't see any obvious reason for your delay from looking at other BJS departures this morning. Strange......Best of luck anyway.

moondog

There is nothing "strange" about delays in China, but I have had particularly bad luck with CX metal flights (e.g. 347 is the first flight to get cancelled when loads are light).

CaptainCajun

Just to complete the story, the flight was rescheduled from 10:00 to 10:30, we boarded at 10:30, pushed back at 12:30, finally took off at 13:30 and landed in HKG a little over 3 hours late. While we were waiting, the captain specifically made reference to "military exercises".

DernierVirage

Interesting, I thought that the military exercises were finished, but apparently not.

I'm on 347 today and next Wednesday, let's hope things are normal again!

Cathay Boy

China is always on military exercises. The major one may be finish, but Chinese military is always doing some kind of exercises. This is one of the reasons why domestic Chinese travel are frequently delayed. My colleague has been on a flight from Guangxi to Hong Kong that was returned MID WAY back to Guangxi because the pilot said the military closed down the air space to conduct exercises.

alphaod

Flight today KA 897 delayed once again (from 7:40 pm to 8:50 pm). Interestingly it was also delayed to the same time last week (and many times before that), so I don't know. I'll probably try to move to an earlier flight once I get to the airport; loads on other flights don't seem high.

percysmith

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/financ...40903/18854182

Let me try and translate

Worst on-time performance for CX in 10 years
Only 70% flights arrive on time - PRC routes severely affected

PRC flight delays are quickly becoming a "fact of life" and the problem is spreading to Hong Kong. According to our research [the graphic suggests this information comes from CX's Annual and Interim Reports], CX has a steadily worsening record of on-time arrivals in the past 10 years, with only 70% of flights departing or arriving* with 15 minutes of scheduled time. Some pilots note with the increase in flights and congestion in PRC air corridors, delays will continue to increase.

According to international standards, flights are considered to be on time if they depart within 15 minutes of scheduled departure or arrive within 15 minutes of scheduled arrival*. According to records, CX and KA consolidated on-time performance fell 7% to 70.7% - the worst in 10 years and 20% lower than 2004 levels. The performance has consistently fell in recent years.

This year's performance noticeably worsened starting in April. According to CX World, on-time performance was 65.5% in May; if the 15 minute allowance is dropped, only 35% of flights were early or on time, meaning 65% of flights suffered from some measure of delay.

PRC routes represented a significant portion of delays - with the increase in air traffic between HK and the Mainland, the problem is spreading to HK. A retired CX pilot noted: "All airlines try to maximise the utilisation of their aircraft. If an aircraft is scheduled to fly from SH [the Chinese text does not specify SHA or PVG so I'll simply translate the term into SH] to HKG and there is a delay in PVG, HKG will be affected by domino effect". The pilot added, HKG, SZX and CAN utilise the same air corridor to SH, so if there is VIP movement or WX, congestion will ensue.

PLA exercises delay PEK and SH flights

At present, PLA controls PRC airspace, allowing only 20% for civilian use. Coupled with frequent military exercises this year, PEK and SH flights are especially vulnerable. Adding to the problem is inadequate parking at HKG and more than usual storm warnings. The pilot noted if larger equipment were used and flights reduced, the corridor will be less congested, "but frequency for passenger convenience is valued from a passenger perspective". More delays are to be expected as frequencies increase and PLA continues to restrict airspace.

Bank of Communications International airline analyst Geoffrey Cheng stated quantification of actual effect delays to airlines is difficult. Although there were instances of HX [HX234] being "occupied" in June resulting in $800 compensation per passenger, monetary compensation is rare and compensation by way of meal voucher is the norm. Delays will also result in change of aircraft and crew, which will increase outgoings.

CX responded there are numerous causes of delays including factors out of CX's control such as weather and congestion, with one factor unilaterally causing delays. The company stresses delays are a constant problem for all HK and PRC carriers. Soon-to-be-listed HX has not published similar delay statistics.

* [I think CX uses departure, and Flightstats uses arrival. I like Flightstat's definition better, not sure if Flightstat can go back 10 years like CX's Annual and Interim Reports]

Cathay Boy

As long as China's military refuses to open more airspace, and the habit of closing them down at will doesn't stop. China's civilian air travel will be a big mess. Also, don't be surprise if HK's recent surge of air nightmare isn't a way of punishing HK and it's anti-China demostrations. It may not be an official order from the top, but in China they take it very personally when it comes to nationalism, and I am not a bit surprise if some ATC manager decided to take it upon himself to teach HK a lesson by creating some air mess for them. It's pretty common in China to use public powers to do personal grudges.

alphaod

I should update my flights last Friday were again delayed by exactly one hour and ten minutes. Arriving at the airport I asked to be put on the next available flight and it seems everyone else did just about the same.

Yeah you can pay FlightStats for data going back a long time. I think that's how they make money because I sure don't click on their ads.

77W_12A

This is why I WOULD NEVER transit in PRC no matter how cheap the fare is. One would think by giving themselves a 3 hour window for transit would be safe, but when the PRC conducts military exercises, who knows how long the delay.

There have been times I've thought about visiting PVG or PEK for the weekend, but when I hear a friend of mine who's always complaining about delays going to PVG, it gives me second thoughts. Rather go to BKK or ICN.

alphaod

Yeah well unfortunately I live here… so I have to deal with it.