yohy?!

not surprising, they haven't done enough to differentiate W from Y and demonstrate a value for money. to me this signifies PE is failing on medium haul, they should consider a price drop rather than a reconfig really...

Y is already a very good product so I think its difficult to justify paying a lot more for a little more leg room without significantly better catering or cabin service and with not dedicated toilet/no access to J toilet on 330.

Expatal

As someone who has travelled in W on an A330 (and will again shortly) I feel like an endangered species.
I guess the value of W depends on how much you feel the need for the extra space.
I regularly fly LHR-PER. In the old days of the BA-QF service agreement I craved the space LHR-SIN, but could do without it for the SIN-PER leg.
Nowdays the only one stop W (within Oneworld) option is via HKG. With the PER leg now up to eight hours I want the extra space. The fact that the CX all W option cost about the same as the old BA/QF W+Y is merely a bonus.
Mind you I dream of being able to get W for a Y plus 50 % fare. Ex UK it is about double

wandering_fred

While I try to be agreeable, QF's prices for the August dates I used earlier (about a month away) even in Y+ Sale are more than CX's (ie AU$4600) and that's with Y seating PER-SYD.

From SYD to the USA, CX is likely to be more expensive as HKG would be too far out of the way when compared with the direct flights. Some of us suspect that QF's attitude to PER passengers can be summed up by examining the number of international flights QF now has from PER. (ie most days = zero)

In the end CX (like QF) will only price their flights in response to competition. From the USA there is competition and therefore lower prices.

[end rant] and back to happy wandering

Fred

sxc

Fred - I'm looking ex-HKG so I guess this reflects respective market power.

Mafai

Interesting read here

http://z.wandr.me/XAtMhX


So good route to score Y to J upgrade

JClasstraveller

CX hasn't announced which routes will have W completely cut and which will have the shrink. India to HKG is even shorter than Australia to HKG so there's no need for it. The only reason for it to India is the connecting market to the USA/Canada.

This also has the benefit of increasing capacity for routes that long haul 333s fly regionally between their turns (e.g. MNL, TPE, BKK etc.).

percysmith

"There will soon be a regional fleet of 10 aircraft without the Premium Economy cabin at all. These planes will operate on even regional routes where the demand for extra personal space is lowered by the shorter stage length."

Isn't there 12 regional A333s already http://www.flyerguide.com/Cathay_Pacific_(CX)_Fleet#33Z ?

IanFromHKG

The limit seems to be on the number of flights, not on the number of seats - which is why CX are changing one of their daily flights to SYD into a 77W flight
http://www.businesstraveller.asia/as...sydney-service

dunflyer

(Please excuse myself as this is my first post here)

I reckon they are keeping the PE on the 330s for Australia route as there seems to be good demands on those seats in my experience (not sure if many are op-up)

As some said, those cuts were probably meant for Indian routes?

creampuff

I'm a bit late to this thread.

However as a premium economy convert for personal and family travel, paid for by myself, I'm not sure I agree with the above.

I find standard economy flights over a few hours length hell on earth. Longhaul standard economy would be abysmal. I really dread long flights in economy class; the whole thought of it starts to bother me a week or two before the flight. So does my wife and I know we are not alone in thinking this.

The gap in comfort, quality and price between standard economy and business class is just too large. It is either an uncomfortable 1 square foot of upright seating and shared armrests or it is a lie flat bed. And the price difference is about a factor of four (I know it can be less than 4x, but comparing equally flexible tickets and flying when you want to fly, not when you can get the cheapest ticket). So you need premium economy.

The gap in price between PEY and business class is also large. Particularly when you are a family and so are buying 3 or 4 tickets. 4 tickets x US$1,500 (say) fare difference is a serious amount of cash to expend on a few hours of additional comfort. So you can't say "the people who have money will fly J". I suspect few people in J are paying for the ticket themselves. The people who have money actually fly premium economy.

creampuff

Of course, this also depends on the price premium of PEY over standard economy. Every time I've flown PEY (which has been on BA, Cathay and Eva Air) the price premium for the same flights I was going to take anyway was between 20% and 50%. Cathay has been unrealistic with some of they PEY prices on some routes and put it significantly higher than standard economy and not a whole lot cheaper than business. If they are having trouble selling PEY on some routes I'd look at pricing rather than take out seats.

ieuan1

Interesting approach from QANTAS to Premium Economy. They see little demand for it on the Asian routes. See article here:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-sees-...conomy-to-asia

Cathay Boy

You just made a case why they should ditch premium economy. You said it yourself, flying Y is hell, and for casual rich flyers they may justify paying extra for once in a awhile trip overseas at very high prices because they can afford it, and they don't do it often so forking over thousands more isn't a big pinch to their wallet.

So by your logic and airlines actually loses out, I am in the belief that these rich folks would pay extra to fly comfort rather than suffer in Y to save some money that they can afford anyway.

creampuff

Errrm but you are assuming these passengers who will supposedly, if given the choice between standard-Y and J with no PEY offering will choose J.

I don't think they would. I've got a quite reasonable job in a first world country. I've got an average sized family. Longhaul business class flights for all of us (and not some silly multiple stop routing or traveling when you don't actually want to travel just to make J cheaper) would cost about US$16,000 a go. Call it about a US$12,000 increase on standard economy or a US$9-10,000 increase on PEY. Despite having a reasonble job and ordinary sized family, I'd say that is a significant chunk of change. If I paid business class, it would mean I'd have to compromise something else in my budget.

So if I'm paying privately for multiple tickets out of my one income, then J is too expensive.

If I'm only flying by myself, then I may think J prices are OK but I may also think PEY is a substantial increase in comfort over Y and a lot less money than J.

There are always exceptions but I think people willing to spend US$4,000 on full business class if they are paying it themselves are a tiny minority and you would find far, far more people willing to pay a smaller premium for PEY.

Maxxis

I fly about 4~6 times a year from TPE to the Middle East via HKG. I noticed that PEY (E) is priced almost exactly the same as standard Economy (M), sometimes even a few dollars cheaper. Very often when I can't book far enough ahead for the cheapest possible club miles fares (V, L), I would just book PEY (E) instead of paying the virtually the same or higher fare for Y (M, B, H). For some reason on the HKG-DXB or HKG-RUH routes PEY is often more than half empty.

For 10 hour flights such as HKG ~ RUH, the comfort level contrast between PEY and Y is greatly appreciated, not to mention the good possibility of getting oped up to J.