percysmith

If I'm asking the public to build a factory for me to use as new base of production I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO YELL MY THANKS TOO.

Marco Polo

not just that
look at the poorly written waffle response to the WSJ article posted above

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...393175380.html
"What does cause them some difficulty is that additional runway or indeed terminal capacity must be built in discrete lumps, rather than being added incrementally, and involves lengthy planning approvals processes."so he seemingly ignores the fact that the HKD 7 billion midfield extension with 20 new parking bays will commence in Hong Kong third quarter this year and that this will add an additional 10m pax throughput by 2015.

more
http://www9.unisys.com/eprise/main/a...ERDMAN_BIO.pdf
On the note of the reply , what a coincidence :
" Prior to joining the AAPA, Andrew held a number of senior positions with
the Swire Group, the parent company of Cathay Pacific Airways…….
Most recently, as Director Corporate Affairs for Swire Pacific, headquartered in Hong Kong, Mr. Herdman was a director of the parent company responsible for internal and external corporate communications, investor relations, crisis management, community, social and government affairs for the conglomerate…………
Mr. Herdman spent much of his earlier career in a variety of senior aviation-related roles with Cathay Pacific Airways and its associated companies. Between 1994 and 1995, Mr. Herdman was Managing Director of Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Company Ltd (HAECO), and Chairman of Xiamen-based TAECO ….. From 1991 to.1993, Mr. Herdman was Cathay Pacific’s General Manager Cargo, responsible for the airline’s cargo activities worldwide..
Association of Asia Pacific Airlines (AAPA)
The AAPA is a grouping of 17 scheduled international airlines based in the Asia-Pacific region. It is the trade association of the region’s airlines, created to represent their interests and to provide a forum for all members to exchange information and views on matters of common concern. The AAPA permanent secretariat is headquartered in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Marco Polo

Putting the cart before the horsewww.scmp.com
LEADER Jul 21, 2011

As the Airport Authority's campaign for a third runway at Hong Kong International Airport moves into high gear, it feels increasingly like the cart is being put before the horse. Promotional videos and materials are being churned out and the government's three-month consultation is under way, with its focus on increasing capacity. Of course, the tens of billions of dollars involved dictate that every possible aspect has to be publicly examined and that there is a thorough debate. However, it ignores the fundamental point that increased capacity, allowing for vastly more aircraft to fly in and out, will not be fully utilised unless there is hard-and-fast agreement on flight paths with Shenzhen and Macau.

It is all a matter of airspace. As the authority pointed out in its technical report, fully realising the potential capacity gain of another runway requires redesigning flight paths over the Pearl River Delta region. Hong Kong would need "a northern circuit, long final approach tracks and independent arrival procedures". As yet, despite three years of bargaining, no deal to allow these has been signed.
Civil Aviation Department officials are nonetheless positive. They say that consensus was recently reached, although they admit that nothing formal has yet been agreed. With all airports in the region competing for rapidly expanding business and jealous of what they have and eager for more, a signed-and-sealed deal is essential. Without it there can be no certainties or guarantees.
The authority has yet to reveal its budget for the campaign, and how much the consultation will cost taxpayers is equally uncertain. Both were rolled out with next to no public discussion. That they were launched without there even being certainty about whether there is a possibility that substantially more planes will be able to fly into Hong Kong seems, in the circumstances, presumptive. If public funds are not to be wasted, we should be handling such matters in the correct order - which, common sense would say, is to get airspace approvals first.

Marco Polo

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...l#post16770162

looks like CX will be flying to Beijing South
9 runways
400 million pax

Beijing North (74 million pax) to stay Star Alliance

so, about that airspace consensus, ?

Cathay Boy

Geez, a city that is willing to spend money on infrastructure expansion when it realizes they are running out of capacity soon. What a concept...

kaka

be happy that PEK is not a oneworld hub otherwise we'd lose out even more in hk when all transfer pax moves over.

Cathay Boy

Only if China provides the same level of service competence as HKG. Remember I was forced to fly China Eastern before? I bought a straight China Eastern ticket, JFK-PVG-Cheng Du. The transfer desks at PVG was so overwhelmed that they forced people to go out, go up to the airline desk, and do a re-check-in, for solely the reason that they are overwhelmed and refuse to take more pax. To add insult to injury both the elevators at PVG weren't working that day, and we all had to drag our luggage up the escalator, it wasn't a pretty sight.

Marco Polo

Well since all the manufacturing centres are moving and have moved from PRD to the north they will need northern China airports for export will they not ?
Meanwhile the Green machine is in motion to stop the EIA rubber stamp:

Independent look at runway urged About seven out of 10 those polled by the Civic Party want an independent consultant to evaluate the economic impact of the proposed third airport runway.
Winnie Tse www.thestandard.com.hk
Friday, July 22, 2011

About seven out of 10 those polled by the Civic Party want an independent consultant to evaluate the economic impact of the proposed third airport runway.
The party conducted a telephone survey involving 1,365 respondents from June 20 to June 27........................
It found that 67 percent agree the Legislative Council should employ an independent consultant to review the accuracy of financial data provided by the Airport Authority.
Party vice chairman Albert Lai Kwong- tak said the criteria used fails to take environmental costs into account and he presented the poll results yesterday to back up party claims.
The poll also found 68 percent agree the government should conduct an environmental assessment of the runway and recommend compensatory measures.
Lai said the strategic environmental assessment should also include the impact of other projects such as the Hong Kong-Zhuhai- Macau Bridge and reclamation of surrounding neighborhoods, in particular Tung Chung, Ma Wan and Tuen Mun..........................
Party member and legislator Tanya Chan Suk-chong said conflicting roles should be avoided as the authority "can't be the player and referee at the same time." Chan said: "The Transport and Housing Bureau should take over the public consultation to show credibility." Other departments should also be involved, including the Environment Bureau.

Foxconn shares to feel heat after profit warningWith labour and demand problems, the world's top maker of mobile handsets reports loss for half-year
www.scmp.com
Naomi Rovnick Jul 22, 2011

Shares in Foxconn International Holdings (SEHK: 2038) are likely to come under pressure today after the world's largest contract mobile phone handset maker issued a profit warning last night.
Foxconn International, a unit of Taiwan's Foxconn Technology group, revealed in an 8.23pm statement it would record a loss for the half-year to last month.
The company, whose customers include Nokia and Motorola, has been suffering from a series of problems, from rising labour costs and social unrest in China to weak demand for its traditional mobile handsets because of the success of smartphones.
Foxconn International did not outline its reasons for sounding the earnings alert last night. The already loss-making firm simply said it would: "continue to show a loss" for the six months to last month. It said the loss would be smaller this time around than in the first half of last year, when it plunged US$144 million into the red.

Survey points to factory slowdown'Flash' purchasing managers' index suggests contraction in mainland manufacturing
www.scmp.com
Denise Tsang Jul 22, 2011

Manufacturing in the mainland has shrunk for the first time in a year amid economic tightening, with fears the worst is yet to come.
The HSBC (SEHK: 0005, announcements, news) /Markit twice-monthly survey of the purchasing managers' index, ........... fell to 48.9 earlier this month from 50.1 last month. A figure below 50 indicates manufacturing is contracting.
The reading is the lowest in 28 months and reveals sluggish new business investment and weaker demand at home and abroad.
Some economists and factory owners said the mainland's manufacturing sector would have to brace for more upheavals as inflation, the European debt crisis and an unstable economic outlook in the United States showed no signs of abating.
They say anecdotal evidence suggested that recent bankruptcies of factories in the Pearl River Delta were triggered by tighter credit lending.
HSBC chief China economist Qu Hongbin expected industrial growth would taper off in coming months as the impact of the nation's tightening measures spread.
However, new business across the mainland appears to be slowing due to weaknesses in external and domestic demand.
The index revealed more bad news for manufacturers' profitability, with production prices exceeding output prices.
Hong Kong Small and Medium Enterprises Association chairman Danny Lau Tat-pong said an 18.6 per cent rise in the minimum wage in Guangdong in March, surging raw materials prices, and a record high yuan exchange against the greenback gave little room for survival.
He added that many smaller enterprises were in limbo as tighter lending choked off liquidity.
"Many factories are producing without profits," Lau said. "Most of their profitability is eroded by rising costs as factory owners may not be able to pass all the price increases to customers."

percysmith

http://www.yes-minister.com/ypmseas1a.htm

Marco Polo

Yes Prime Minister - my favourite ! Hacker would do better than Donald Tsang and Hacker's dead.
now WWF is pitching in:

Letters SCMP Jul 22, 2011 www.scmp.com
Consider all costs of a third runway
WWF is not opposed to the sustainable development of Hong Kong. Any questioning of the assumptions and contentions in the Airport Authority's expensive propaganda campaign supporting the third runway should not be construed as being anti-development.
The information offered by the authority is seriously lacking in specifics about the environmental impacts and the resultant costs. Major infrastructure projects must include an element of the social costs.
The people of Hong Kong are being asked to support an investment of HK$136 billion for a project with too few specifics provided. Our business community would not give a go-ahead on an investment of a lesser magnitude with such limited information.
WWF has expressed our concern about the impact of this huge loss of habitat on the very survival of the Chinese white dolphin. In discussions with WWF, the authority has recognised it is encroaching on the species' habitat but is at a loss about what to do. WWF has expressed considerable concern about the impact of the ongoing loss of fishery grounds for our fishing community. Nothing is forthcoming on this social and economic cost to our community.
In a meeting with the authority we were astounded that it was unable to provide information on the increase in greenhouse gas emissions attributable to the increased traffic using the runaway. We were informed no such calculation has been undertaken because of the complexity of types of aircraft and predicted fuel efficiencies.
This assertion raises the question: How is the authority able to quantify the economic benefits to Hong Kong using traffic data to support its arguments, yet is incapable of calculating the greenhouse gas emissions? ........................
This is a runway long on promises but woefully short on specifics........................
WWF calls for the consultation process to be halted until after this crucial information is provided to the public. Then and only then can a reasoned decision be made.
Eric Bohm, CEO, WWF-Hong Kong

Marco Polo

Green Groups Joint Statement
Urging Airport Authority Hong Kong (AAHK) to acknowledge the environmental impact of the third runway project

http://www.foe.org.hk/welcome/geten....204590,%204754
(July 2011) Airport Authority Hong Kong (AAHK) recently announced the Hong Kong International Airport Master Plan 2030 (Master Plan 2030), where two options were proposed. Option 1 is to maintain the existing two-runway system, and Option 2 is to expand into a three-runway system. Green Groups including the Conservancy Association, Green Peace, Green Sense, Friends of the Earth (HK), Clean Air Network, Hong Kong Dolphin Conservation Society (HKDCS) and Greeners Action have jointly declared:

We are disappointed with AAHK's lack of neutrality during its public consultation............... We find it unacceptable that the AAHK deliberately trivializes the impact of the third runway on Chinese White Dolphins by altering the distribution map of Chinese White Dolphins published by the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department without authorization.

A large part of the Hong Kong ocean would be permanently gone if the proposal were carried out, since the three-runway system would require about 650 hectares of land reclamation.............. when such great damage is done to the marine ecology.

The aviation industry is a polluting industry which emits large amounts of carbon dioxide and air pollutants as part of its operation. The industry accounts for around 4% of Hong Kong's total carbon emissions. For carbon dioxide that is emitted at high altitudes, the resultant greenhouse effect caused is much greater than that emitted at ground level. However, AAHK spared no paragraphs on explaining the projected increase in carbon emissions in the consultation documents.

Polluting facilities like power plants already exist in North Lantau and Tuen Mun. More projects are being planned in the area as well, such as the HK-Zhuhai-Macau Bridge, waste incinerators, Tung Chung Extension Reclamation, Hong Kong-Shenzhen Airport Railway etc. We believe that these infrastructure projects are over-concentrated, and the total reclamation will take up an extremely large footprint and will seriously worsen air pollution.

We stress that building the third runway requires much more discussion and research as it not only involves environmental issues but also issues on airspace constraints, noise pollution, construction cost, demand forecast, cooperation with Pearl River Delta airports etc. To avoid wasting 136.3 billion of taxpayers' money, the Government and AAHK should not make a hasty decision which may create a "Big white elephant".

Green Groups call on the AAHK to:
(1) Stop trivializing the environmental impact of the third runway. Face and admit the enormous impact the third runway has on the environment
(2) Extend the public consultation period and present more relevant data on impacts on the environment, public health and ecology
(3) Maintain neutrality when promoting and consulting the public on the proposal. Avoid over-emphasizing the economic impact/benefits of the third runway
(4) Handle environmental issues properly even before the mandatory Environmental Impact Assessment(EIA) process

To enhance public understanding on the environmental impact of the third runway, the following website http://greenerairport.blogspot.com
has been set up to explain the stance and arguments of green groups.

Marco Polo

So Foxconn has gone west and north - all that aircargo used to pass through HKG, but no more.

Chongqing -- China's inland business capital
By Sebastien Blanc (AFP) – Jun 29, 2011
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...3d53512e37.321

CHONGQING, China — After just a few years of explosive growth, China's mega-city of Chongqing has emerged as a major industrial hub, thanks in part to a "Go West" policy to open up China's less-developed inland. The southwestern municipality, home to more than 32 million people, has been transformed by rapid urbanisation and a construction boom, with ultra-modern factories and skyscrapers galore.
We are seeing evidence that this is continuing. Chongqing will become to Ford the second largest automotive centre in the world outside of Detroit."
The mega-city is also quickly becoming a high-tech hub, with Foxconn, the world's biggest contract electronics supplier, Taiwan's leading personal computer maker Acer and Hewlett-Packard already in place. In just a few years, the area will produce one-third of all laptops sold worldwide. For the shipment of such high-value goods, Chongqing is depending on a train link that will pass through China's southwest, the far-western Xinjiang region, central Asia and Russia to reach western Europe.
The rail line would offer a major shortcut to the more traditional maritime trade routes from Shanghai, Hong Kong or Taipei, cutting travel time to Europe from about 40 days by container ship to just 15 days by freight train.Logistically speaking, Chongqing will have access to the world," McWhirter said.
As for the daunting task of moving millions of people in and out of Chongqing, authorities are also making progress.
Airport passenger traffic rose more than 70 percent on-year in the first half of 2010. A second runway and second terminal building were completed late last year, with a third of each set to open by 2015

Cathay Boy

Marco Polo. All these "news" about corporations moving inland is not really news at all. It's been happening for the last 4-5 years as coastal cities getting too expense for them (heaven forbid $200 USD per month rather than $100 USD per month labor, the horror the horror, time to move!) Yet what is the fact about HKG cargo volume? It increased at a significant level in 4-5 years. The thing about modern shipment is that technology has made it less about distance, but more about quality of service.

I really simplified scenario. When I need to send a package I don't go to the Post Office 5 minutes away. Because I know the Post Office means: a huge line due to understaffed and slow service; horrific on-time records; bad handling; insurance are hard to claim even with legit reasons.

So I drive 15 minutes to UPS instead and I get: virtually no line due to efficiency of service; excellent on-time records; great handling; easy to claim insurance.

Corporations pick air freight for the same reasons as pax pick airlines. Service, Efficiency, Reliability, and Responsibility.

CX HK

The HK government can't be pressured by the rapid economic growth from China and ignore all environmental aspects... although generally being a "supporter" of the third runway as HK has to compete with Chinese cities for a spot in Asia, would Chinese airport authorities really care about the environmental impact? I'm not saying they are right, but I feel like China also encourages a "race to the bottom"... you care about environmental issues? You lose out, cause China doesn't, and they will build, build, and build. Quite a sad scenario.

Marco Polo

well, exactly. UPS's Asia hub is in Shenzhen airport so that is where your package gets consolidated.