YVR Cockroach

I wrote to Mike Dunn at AA a few weeks ago about us CP frequent flyers being left behind as CP leaves the oneworld fold. The letter (I'll post if when I get back home) got sent down to a Bob Tighe(sp), AA's Managing Director of Canada Market Planning, who would like to discuss my (i.e., all of yours too) concerns. I will call him first to acknowledge I got his message and also let him know a wish list of frequent flyers will be compiled and sent to him.

Let's start posting the wish list (I'll start). Feel free to comment.


[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 06-19-2000).]

YVR Cockroach

Kicking off, my suggestions are:

1) Reduced elite qualification requirements for Canadian members until a Canadian carrier joins oneworld/AA for qualifying

2) recruit a Canadian carrier to join oneworld or AA for qualifying


[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 06-20-2000).]

Ken hAAmer

10. Restore F class fares/service to Canada, until such time as they have a true 3-class service
9. Have CIA replace David Colinette with a look alike manequin. (Note: already done)
8. More flights between Canadian cities and US hubs
7. Commission Trey Parker and Marc Shaiman to write new corporate theme song: "Blame Air Canada"
6. Code share with regional carriers in Canada, such as WestJet
5. Issue counterfeit Star Alliance credentials
4. Flights between major Canadian cities and more US cities (hubs primarily, but also places like LAX. YVR, for example, currently only has a few flights to DFW and 1 to JFK)
3. Whack-a-Milton arcade game
2. Free ticket between US and Canada with the purchase of a full fare ticket between Canada and the US, good only from/to ORD or JFK
1. Air-to-air missles

Shareholder

According to Guy Betsy (aka Celestar), AA has already bitten and dropped the qualification levels for Gold and Platinum for Canadian members. As for ExecPlat, doesn't look like they're budging.

Andrew Yiu

I think the lowering of qualification levels for GOLD and PLATINUM will only work for those who are just joining them. For those of us who are already GLD or EXP on CP, it'll be very hard for us to start all over again flying at least 18K Q miles with no benefits at all. I think comp status is the way to go if they really wanted to grab some of CP or soon to be AC customers away.

Finding a way to start domestic routes within Canada is a must and increasing transborder flights to compete with AC is also a must in order to make AA attractive enough to make us switch over.

YVR Cockroach

I'll add that

1) we have no way of crossing the Atlantic on a oneworld carrier and get miles unless we go trans-border and travel AA/IB/AY/EI with all the hassles of going through INS as well as a longer journey, and not to mention potentially *very* slow INS lines. As is, it's impossible to connect from Europe to Vancouver on the same day unless one buys a pricey ticket to get back from JFK-YVR (CX).

1a) Traveling through the U.S. to get to a 3rd country isn't attractive option due to possible long waits to get through the INS lines.

2) Lack of lounge access. I don't think there is a transborder lounge in Canada except at YYZ. Lounge service is also poorer vs. what we got at CP such as a lack of drinks (only tea/coffee/water is available as self-serve).

3) In business class, seating comfort is worse on AA than on AC and particularly CP. Only the promised beds on BA will compensate and we don't get miles for BA transatlantic.

4) Food service is almost non-existent on AA flights compared to CP flights.

hsi.chang

Wouldn't connections through JFK skip INS formalities ? I seemed to remember that JFK has sterlile transit environment. Speaking on behalf of YYZ, we need:

1) YYZ-JFK flights
2) NetsAAver fares from YYZ way more frequently. And if they're not going to offer YYZ the "connection" typed saver fares, then at least offer fares OTHER than ORD, when they actually do offer them (very seldom).

YVR Cockroach

Hsi highlights a need for more flights to oneworld N. American international hubs.

Hsi

Have to ask but are there any JFK-Canada flights other than CX and AA's from YVR?

I speak for YVR on this. There are 2 YVR-JFK flights daily. The early one is the CX flight so no INS preclearance is available/required. It arrives in the one BA uses so one can get a connection to London. It makes for a long day of travelling though. Connections from Europe to Canada are good but of course one doesn't earn miles on the trans-Atlantic segments (if flown on BA). Not sure if it is possible to transfer between the two terminals w/o going through INS first.

The AA flight leaves slightly later (it was scheduled to feed/receive pax from CP's Asia flights and that relationship will end soon). It requires INS preclearance and I am not sure which JFK terminal it flies into (hopefully where all the AA Int'l flights leave/depart from). It leaves for YVR too early to make it a useful connector.

[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 06-20-2000).]

FewMiles

How about AAdvantage lets its Canadian members earn AA miles on the BA flights from Canada to Europe? It is just ridiculous that we have to fly to Europe via the US (i.e. AA metal) if we want to earn miles.


FewMiles..

hsi.chang

YUL-JFK, operated by AA Eagle

Shareholder

I am posting this here as well, since it responds to the above points as much as to the main premise on the other forum:

"And would you not expect U.S.-based members not to be pissed off?

"A bit of discretion is also at play, and if we Canadian members plaster every variance of AAdvantage offers onto these boards, in the end who can blame AA for not extending considerations in the future. (It may not be worth pissing off their U.S. members who have received no breaks, other than the Challenges, to get their elite status.) I believe AA has been quite generous in their offers to us to date so as to get our business and move us into becoming active AAdvantage members. (Particularly when most accrual is coming on oneworld partners, and not on paid AA flights.) But all I seem to read on these postings is .....ing that all thi still isn't enough!

"Sorry guys, but I have to depart from supporting your efforts for more, more, more. I find queue jumping is a distasteful activity, and we've had more than enough offers from AA to go to the head of the line. I realize Platinum is not like ExecPlat, but go out and earn the top tier and be appreciative of having been given a head start in the lineup to enjoy some perks while getting there.

"As to the some of the specifics:

1. U.S. lounges have always been membership affairs due to a ruling by the Justice Department back in the 60s. This is based on anti-discrimination, not corporate greed.

2. The serving of free alcohol is a policy set from airline to airline. AA charges, which is a fact of life.

3. Lounges exist where the volume of members will make them viable. AA doesn't have enough volume at most Canadian airports -- and is unlikely to for quite a while -- to justify such facilities, so they aren't here. If we did not have pre-clearance of U.S. customs/ immigration, then sharing with CX/BA/QF would be possible at more airports, and a oneworld lounge might become feasible.

"But, if you don't like these two realities, then get your oneworld lounge eligibility by earning Sapphire or Emerald levels on BA, CX or QF. That way you'll have lounge access on domestic AA (U.S.) flights too, and I believe two drinks coupons. (Yes, I know you will say one has to fly too many miles on higher fares: that's the price for such enhanced benefits. CP went broke giving us all those enhanced perks, not a way to run a business!)

4. There is "the Challenge" to get into the initial AA elite tiers on a fast-track basis. One trip across the Pacific to either HKG on CX or SYD on QF will get you Gold. Add a bit of domestic AA activity (afterall they are the ones making the offers) and you reach Platinum, and qualify after July and you have it until Feb 2002.

5. Those of us fortunate to have had active AA accounts -- and had demonstrated some actual business to that carrier in the past -- were comped to the next level of elite (save for ExecPlat), and so the lowering of renewal threshhold seems fair enough. Maybe it is "only" 2/3rds the normal level, but you can use miles instead of points and again, achieve it with two trans-Pacific trips (thanks to the generosity of CX which now makes their deeply discounted fares eligible to us for AA accrual). Is it worth $3K to you to have Plat on AA for almost two years? (I know, you won't get upgraded on CX or QF. It's the old "cake and eat it" syndrome.)

6. AA mileage accumulation of BA flights would be the last straw in these special perks for Canadian AAdvantage members. Can you imagine the outrage and mass defections to UA and DL that would result if this were permitted! And why should AA encourage you to fly their competitor across the Atlantic, just because your don't want to fly into LGA (and take a transfer bus to JFK) or ORD to earn miles on AA itself?

I'm afraid I have to dissent from this initiative, and I'll earn my elite status the same way everyone else has to earn it: by flying AA (and its partners) and accumulating the appropriate number of miles.

[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 06-20-2000).]

ALW

Shareholder, I don't think this was intended to be a laundry list of freebies AA can hand out, rather a way to give AA an idea of what items would be more important than others on their list (or even some they haven't thought of). Certainly both terenz and KH's initial posts were heavy on service/scheduling items, and light on "kickbacks".

The items that would be best for me would be,

1. Team with a domestic Canadian carrier at the earliest possible moment ("team" doesn't have to be oneworld, but at least allow them to hand out AA points).

2. More transborder flights on routes formerly served by CP. Of course until there's a candidate for #1 (rootsair?) I will tend to start trips with YOW-ORD or YOW-BOS no matter what AA offers out of YVR, but right now even if I could get to YVR, it doesn't sound like AA can get me to California from there.

3. Reciprocal upgrade and award privileges as with CP, so that if I join a rootsair FF program, I have equivalent AA benefits, whatever they may be. I don't care if roots charges for lounge membership (obviously you all know I'd pay) if I then get reciprocal access in AA lounges.

4. The reduced target until there is a domestic partner is also good.

Sure I expect American members might be pissed about some of these things, I might even be too; but the reality is that if AA wants to maintain a presence among Canadian FF'ers, especially those with a significant percentage of domestic travel, they have to offer an incentive. The Canadian Amex program was better than the American, and that's too bad for Americans. (I used to get annoyed when my bank wanted an $85 renewal fee for my mortgage, but would shell out $150 to cover a new customer's penalties, but that's the way it works).

andrew

Ken hAAmer

While I didn't set out with the specific intention, it occurs to me that my list (or half of it, anyway) boils down to asking AA to give me more opportunities to purchase their business. I think I concur with the attitude that AA has already been both generous and gracious with their offers. The lounge membership offer is a good example -- a small simple thing, that recognized our plight, and tried to rectify it as much as possible. (I may very well purchase a membership this weekend.) To ask for even more feels a little like looking a gift horse in the mouth.

My only request: More opportunities to participate with AA, either directly or indirectly. And air-to-air missles.

YVR Cockroach

Is this all there is? Please make final submissions by 5 July

AC*SE

There are no sterile transit facilities avaiable at JFK--even for flights which arrive/depart within the same terminal. The only exception are continuing flights transitting the US where transit passengers remain on board, or at a sterilized gate. This does not permit a change of aircraft.

Everyone arriving ex-Canada would either have to clear locally (as with CX) or be precleared.

Indeed, I am aware of very few environments within the US where sterile transit is available. It might be OK for third country-USA-Canada, but in the reverse it is almost impossible, since the very few Canada-US flights which do not preclear also do not continue.