FewMiles

Anybody know for sure when CP is pulled out of oneworld?

I'm planning a YEG-HKG trip for summer and I am told by the travel agent that after June 1, CPlus members can't earn points on CX flights. Also, CP codeshare numbers on CX flights will no longer exist. Codeshares with BA will end March 31.

Things are starting to make some sense. June 1 seems like a plausible ending date for CP's membership in oneworld. It will be the summer peak season. The new combined AC/CP summer schedule starts then. Miltoncorp will want to compete with CX for pax to/from HKG. Finally, LanChile and Aer Lingus probably begin oneworld operations on the same day (therefore, no overlap).

Meanwhile, it looks like Japan Airlines is going to announce its intention to join. (See postings on the oneworld and "In the News" boards.)

Finally, Milton's grand scheme is for CP to join Star by fall (maybe Sept 1?). Anyone notice that "star" backwards spells rats? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif


FewMiles..

PointWeasel

There was an article in the National Post last week regarding Brotto's replacement of Benson and literally 'buried' at the end of it was a short word on the end of CP's oneworld membership effective June 1 and Star membership to begin that same day. There was also info on AA being the exception to this change. Awards will be able to be claimed on oneworld partners for up to one year until June 1, 2001. Does anyone else recall the same article?

FewMiles

See MD's "National Post" thread for a link to the article.

I read it again, and you're right PointWeasel, there it is. A terse note about alliance bed-hopping on June 1. A one-day switchover?

Well, Rats Alliance it is. It's sad to lose access to oneworld. They had better partners, IMO.


FewMiles..

transborder

Has anyone seen and/or heard anything about the continuation of AA/CP codeshares after the CP withdraws from oneworld. This may seem as though it is a lame question but AA has been strangely quiet regarding their equity investment. From an AC/CP standpoint wouldn't it make sense to continue to codeshare with both especially on routes like YYZ-ORD, YYZ-LGA/EWR as you could get both UA (on AC) and AA (on CP) passengers at least on these point-to-point flights.

AC*SE

It was abundantly clear that AA retained its existing codeshare rights on CP for a period of 10 years in exchange for giving in on their equity rights.

The bigger question is whether CP will choose to exercise codeshare rights on AA. After all, selling codeshares on your airplanes gives you cash and makes someone else do the selling.

I think it makes sense, though. UA is already selling a fairly strong bloc of seats to AC. Rather than further dilute this source, it seems to make sense to exercise some access to AA.

dirkster

I think the AA/CP codeshare issue will be further complicated by change of terminals - assume AA will stay in T3, and we are all looking forward to CP moving to T1/T2 aren't we?

AC*SE

AC/UA have the same situation at ORD and LAX
(admittedly, at ORD they are closer together than T1 and T2)

It's not pretty. But I guess it will have to work.

Shareholder

Having just flown through the UK from South Africa this weekend, the papers were full of stories about the future of BA and its new president, whomever it will be. But also about the US justice dept rejecting the BA/AA codeshare applications. This may be more critical to the future of oneworld than anything else to date. Has this been covered over on this side of the Atlantic in the past few days?

Celestar340

When negotiations went into place between AC and AA, AC must have decided to sweeten the deal by allowing codesharing between CP and AA knowing full well that it (AC) has every intention of splitting CP from T3 so that it can consolidate 'all' of its operations in T1 and T2. You can already see the writing on the wall that AA will not be happy about the codeshare in Toronto, at least, and may eventually just pull out when passengers have to know which flight is leaving from which terminal.

You know who is to blame.

ALW

Plus things like only one flight a day on CP YVR-LAX, formerly seven a day.

Same culprits.

andrew

AC*SE

The transborder stuff is fine. AA is pretty much free to operate into any Canadian airport, provided there is a CCRA and CIC presence (Customs and Immigration, respectively).

Where AA will need codeshare access is on the Pacific route network (where they are badly represented), and domestically within Canada (where they are entirely unrepresented).

I have a feeling, they will try and develop more transit through YUL, YYC and YVR, leaving off YYZ because of the twin problems of poor physical connection, and more restricted slot access.

Shareholder

Interesting story in one of the Canadian papers this morning (National Post or G&M, mind is a bit fogged with jetlag and catching up on a week's papers) about how AA made an offer to buy 75% of Canadian Regional, but was turned down by Ottawa. Says they will go back with a plan to own 50% with the balance owned by Canadian partners. Interesting strategy to have an ongoing presence in Canada and increase their links to major US hubs.

ALW

And maybe a way to tweak AC's noses, since they've (AC) made statements about redeploying the F28's all over the place. If AC is already selling seats (especially J seats) on those F28's and now has to worry they wont' be available...

andrew

Shareholder

This morning's Edmonton Journal is running a CdnPress/Staff story about Cdn+ leaving oneworld effective June 1st, but also indicates that its relationship with AA will continue until the special AC/AA agreement works itself out over the 10-years it exists. According to the story:

"Smith-Valade [Cdn spokesperson] also noted that Cdn's agreement with AA -- its former controlling shareholder and the dominant carrier in Oneworld -- is open-ended 'so there are no limits on either earning points or using points with AA'."

Interesting wrinkle. Stay tuned.

AC*SE

AA runs into too many problems. They can't buy Cdn Regional outright or take out a significant equity stake (foreign ownership restrictions).

AC would have nothing to worry about. If anyone buys Cdn regional, they buy the liabilities with it (including outstanding tickets). So AC get the use of the cash until the closing date, and the new buyer would have to pony up with the product.

I don't think any of the existing Cdn carriers are in any position to buy up Cdn Regional. I would be interesting if C3K were decide to expand in this direction, but I wonder if they have the cash/financing to venture into this area. I don't know that I would want to put my existing operations at risk to take on AC.