BlondeBomber

Remember also that ITN will NOT show you all flights, especially those that are not near your selected time. I just looked on Personal Ticket Office and find for Feb 20 4 CP flights YEG-YVR (641, 645, 651 and 1321) and only 3 flights on AC!

. . . if you're really set on being po'd about something, you can always find a way!

Now if I have a beef with all of this, it has been the continuing erosion of jet service between YYC and YEG. Easier now to drive or to take Westjet! Not a problem for me but it will be for AC/CP as there is real competition on this route now and nobody cares if they get upgraded or a meal or anything for that matter, other than on time arrivals.

[This message has been edited by BlondeBomber (edited 02-14-2000).]

Chatter

The new schedule is really weird. I will be flying YUL to HKG in May. As you know the YUL to YVR direct flight has now been cancelled, and I really don´t like taking a long flight from YYZ to HKG, so if I want to change flight in YVR, I am going to stuck in those weird schedule, which I may need to stay overnight in YVR. (Unless I pick Milton´s lovely airline)

One interesting thing that I find is CP is still code sharing with CX for flights to HKG from YYZ and YVR in the summer. I called CX today and asked for the schedule, they still quoted me the old schedule with non stop flights from YUL to YVR. Then I called CP, they told me that the schedule is changing everyday, so even though it is listed code sharing with CX for the time being, I may end up getting on a AC flight in YYZ.

What I concern the most is which FFP should I use. I will enroll in the AA challenge in May, so if I end up travelling in AC rather than CX or whatever combination, it will totally screw up the plan. The worst thing is none of us (except our dearest Mr. Milton) know when CP leaves oneworld and the future arrangement.

The best that I want at the moment is buying a CX ticket, getting on a CP code share flight (larger seat pitch and the possibility of getting upgrade with stickers, which I need to kill them all before I leave Canada), and have my points credited to AA. But it seems it can only happen in the dream.

BlondeBomber

There are some pluses here for CP afficionados. CP will fly the new route from YEG-LAX direct. CP will take over one of AC's YYC-SFO flights (the evening one).

CP will fly the YVR-HNL-SYD route on their 767 planes and the YVR-TPE route on 747 (no more AC flights). It is possible that AC recognizes it might be beneficial to have double branding given the loyalty and following that CP has on Asia-Pacific routes. Both AC and CP will fly YVR-HKG.

AC and CP will each fly once a day YYZ-MEX.

CP will fly YYZ-FCO.

Then look at YVR-YLW, YVR-YKA, YYC-YEG, YYC-YQR, YYC-YQU, YYC-YMM and YYC-YXE in August -- almost exclusively CP (very few, in some cases none, AC flights any more)! Looks like CP will be taking over the smaller commuter runs in the west. Also will be dominating on YYZ-YQB runs (although AC has exclusive on YUL-YQB).

Still a mixed bag of CP and AC on YVR-SEA, YVR-PDX, YYC-YVR and YYZ-YOW, although it looks like AC is becoming dominant on two of those runs. CP virtually disappears from YYZ-YUL.

BlondeBomber

Interesting also that the direct YYZ-YYT runs are exclusively CP.

Shareholder

CP no longer flies YVR-PDX/SEA. It has given these routes over to Horizon on a codeshare basis from Cdn Regional. How long this will last with AC/Air BC also covering these routes is up in the air (pardon the pun) but looks as if it will last through the summer from what you say about the sked showing both carriers.

What is interesting is the lack of AC/CP codeshares so far. (Official word is they are awaiting Ottawa's approval.) It appears that neither AC nor Cdn show the other's flights on their internet skeds, or am I not recognizing when a CP flight is operating as an AC one, or vice versa? I was checking some sked changes that will affect bookings I already have, both as advanced purchases from the last seat sale, or FF tickets for summer travel.

In the case of a flight to London from Calgary I have booked, CP is only showing its flight and AC its separate one on both their booking and sked sites. (Seems they are keeping twice-daily flights out of Calgary to London, at least through April. CP is using 763s and AC 340s. But AC's flight has been moved ahead to be three hours earlier than CP's, which itself has been moved to a later departure to avoid duplication with AC. The returns both depart at the same time, but I am assured by the CP agent that they are separate flights operating from T3 for AC and T4 for CP.)
SInce I am hoping to use a "black" upgrade sticker -- subject to any last minute rule changes on the part of Cdn+ -- I hope the flight remains a separate one on CP and is not combined with the AC one. With the actual flight change time, I suspect this will be the case, though both flights show light booking in all classes and could be candidates for merging a week or so prior to flight, if indeed this is what the carriers have been doing.

I also noticed that ITN has been showing "Unable to price and book" for many Cdn flights, as noted by EMPRESS in other postings, leading to our suspicions given the class of service codes show plenty of seats remain. This is still puzzling, and nobody has come up with an answer as yet.

I am told that, vis a vis any FF bookings and tickets issued, Cdn will be sending out replacements where significant sked changes have been made to affect flight numbers, routings, etc. This is the case with my YEG-YHZ travel in May, since the non-stop Cdn flight ex-YYC was cancelled in the changes. As yet, I don't believe I have been protected on any AC flights, though cannot be sure until I see the new tickets. All these flights are in J-class, and since they included some major time and routing changes to get me there, I suspect Cdn is not booking FF seats on AC for the time being (and in keeping with publicly made statements about awards not yet available on the other carrier's aircraft).

[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 02-15-2000).]

BlondeBomber

. . . thanks for PDX/SEA info Shareholder, I could have sworn this morning that it showed it as a CP operated flight (must be having dreams).

YVR-YXY also still remains firmly in CP hands as it has forever it seems.

Shareholder

Discovered the YVR-PDX/SEA situation when I tried to book a discounted, Royal Bank Visa shorthaul reward a few weeks ago. Instead of 12K, I would have had to use 25K points! Hardly worth it for less than 800-miles. Bought a sale seat for less than C$175, plus 60% more in taxes, airport fees and other US charges!

Up 'til then I too had thought Cdn Regional was still plying the route. Ended up flying YEG-SEA-PDX on AS (Horizon) rather than my usual YEG-YVR-PDX on CP. And although Cdn+ does give points for AS travel, these are not Q-miles, so I decided to put the trip into my AAdvantage account where they got not only Q-miles, but also Gold or Platinum/ExecPlat bonuses.

transborder

It appears that the summer schedule has a YYZ-EWR flight that shows as a CP versus AC flight w/A320 equipment. Does anyone know if these flights if booked as CP still are eligible for AA/oneworld credit. I had never set foot on an AC plane until three weeks ago even though I fly almost weekly between LGA-YYZ and would rather stick with CP until their departure from oneworld. I guess at the point I will try and figure out how to duplicate my FF status w/Aeroplan.

Shareholder

I'd expect that any flight operated by Cdn or bearing a CP codeshare [be it AC, Alitalia or Alaska] will be eligible for oneworld partner credit until CP officially leaves the alliance. Many oneworld codeshares are flown by non-alliance airlines, and miles can be credited to the oneworld partners, so for this interim period, AC planes and flights with CP codes -- make sure the ticket bears the CP flight number, not the AC one -- will be eligible to credit to AA, CX, BA, IB or QF.

MD

When are all you folks going to wake up and smell the (Starbucks) coffee? It will not matter a hoot whether it is a CP or AC flight - expect to get AC. This will become more and more true as time goes on. Just take a look at the new Canadian paint job revealed last week. It was done entirely to make it cheap to change to AC sooner rather than later. They will only have to repaint the name. Expect to see AC green on the interior too!

As soon as the debt is mostly dealt with, I fully expect that there will be no more CP flights at all. While the loss of competition is an unnecessary sad occurance, it is now a reality. Get used to it.

transborder

I think the "paint job" maximizes the best of both livery colours. I have always liked the Maple Leaf but the Canadian (1999) tail was a great improvement to the old CP orange. As for getting used to it and smelling the coffee, I have had the opportunity to fly AC three times within the last three weeks. Clearly, AA and the other oneworld partners were not concerned about a defection to AC/UA/Star when "we" lost CP as a choice. I flew 85K miles with oneworld in '99 which included twice monthly LGA-YYZ trips. I guess when AA did the math they did not believe that many of us would make our alliance decision(s) based upon our shorthaul flights.

PointWeasel

Actually, MD, at the current time, is "does matter" whether or not the flight is CP-operated or AC-operated for those of us who are upper tier members with CPlus or Aeroplan. Currently, our upgrades are not interchangeable, therefore, I will continue to seek CP flights rather than AC ones (this is not the only reason by the way). Although I acknowledge that AC is calling the shots in the rescheduling of flight among other things, CP continues to exist as a separate entity.

MD

OK, Point Weasel, you have a point. I have never really considered the upgrades much of a perq for my way of flying, as it is almost exclusively transatlantic and the company policy is to pay for J Class on these flights. The ability to now use CP flights as well and accumulate Q-miles is a huge benefit for me.