Frustration with upgrades
Nov 29, 1999, 3:40 pm
#1
Company Representative - Air Canada
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
Frustration with upgrades
Should CP consider learning something from AC's SuperElite?
First of all, should they allow EP members to confirm upgrades at time of booking without using black stickers? Although I understand AC is probably not going to do this any more. What's so hard about this, there is probably only 2 or so EP on board each aircraft. I have a flight booked on Tuesday and there are 15 J seats left on Friday (the 100 hr mark) and none are released for R class. Today, there are only 5 left. (It was still 15 yesterday night. 10 gone in a morning???? Business won't be that bad for CP if every flight was going like this). Plat desk told me CP has "zero out" R class for this flight.
Just when I thought making EP will be easier for upgrades, it does not get any better. I personally am not a big fan of having to wait til the airport to know whether I will be getting an upgrade. I have already felt this frustration when I was a GOLD member. Why setting the timelines for upgrades then? WHY NOT MAKE EVERYONE STANDBY AT THE AIRPORT?? I hope they do make some changes regarding this next year. If AC decided to keep allowing SE member to upgrade at time of booking for both domestic and international....it will be very attractive.
If I do have to end up sitting in coach tomorrow which will be the first in 4 years, I probably won't be very happy... with upgrade being the most important to me. Never in my dreams I thought I had to go through this as a EP member. When I was a GOLD member, I was able to confirm most of my upgrades prior to departure but some of those comes with a great amount of work such as constant calling back...so on. Only ones I was not able to was between YVR-LAX-YVR. I am growing increasily fustrating (I am sure others are too) with this problem.
What do you guys think?
Regards,
Empress
First of all, should they allow EP members to confirm upgrades at time of booking without using black stickers? Although I understand AC is probably not going to do this any more. What's so hard about this, there is probably only 2 or so EP on board each aircraft. I have a flight booked on Tuesday and there are 15 J seats left on Friday (the 100 hr mark) and none are released for R class. Today, there are only 5 left. (It was still 15 yesterday night. 10 gone in a morning???? Business won't be that bad for CP if every flight was going like this). Plat desk told me CP has "zero out" R class for this flight.
Just when I thought making EP will be easier for upgrades, it does not get any better. I personally am not a big fan of having to wait til the airport to know whether I will be getting an upgrade. I have already felt this frustration when I was a GOLD member. Why setting the timelines for upgrades then? WHY NOT MAKE EVERYONE STANDBY AT THE AIRPORT?? I hope they do make some changes regarding this next year. If AC decided to keep allowing SE member to upgrade at time of booking for both domestic and international....it will be very attractive.
If I do have to end up sitting in coach tomorrow which will be the first in 4 years, I probably won't be very happy... with upgrade being the most important to me. Never in my dreams I thought I had to go through this as a EP member. When I was a GOLD member, I was able to confirm most of my upgrades prior to departure but some of those comes with a great amount of work such as constant calling back...so on. Only ones I was not able to was between YVR-LAX-YVR. I am growing increasily fustrating (I am sure others are too) with this problem.
What do you guys think?
Regards,
Empress
Nov 30, 1999, 2:59 am
#2
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
In the words of HAL9000 -- "Take a stress pill and think about it." Relax!
I think you're getting too worked up over all of this. Remember this is not an entitlement, but a privilige, to be extended whenever possible. Several points come to mind:
1. The upgrades should never displace paying customers. If CP can fill the J class with paying customers, I'm all for it, given their current financial status. The alternative is an airline monopoly in Canada, with absolutely no need for a FF program or FF benefits, as you will have no choice in airline.
2. Even with 15 apparently empty seats at the 100 hour mark, it would appear CP knows what they are doing. After all, they were able to sell 10 premium high dollar seats over the next day or two.
3. Don't worry about when you are upgraded. The only one who will get upgraded before you is another Executive Platinum who requested the upgrade before you. So whether you get the upgrade at 100 hrs or 4 hours, your place in the line up to get upgrades will stay the same. Nobody can bump you down. (This is quite different from when you are a Gold. The longer you have to wait for an upgrade, the more chance their is for a Platinum to push you down the list. As a Platinum, your place in the line is secure.) The only difference between advance and standby upgrades, is when you know. I don't think this will really affect your flight experience, however.
4. The only way you will not get upgraded, is if somebody pays $3000-$4000 for the seat, and after all, CP is really in the business of selling seats, not giving them away. And they'd pretty much have to sell all of the seats at that price, to block your upgrade.
5. As you said, there will probably be only 1 or 2 Platinums on the flight. That means you 1 or 2 will have priority over every other flyer, short of a full J fare customer. With less than 12 hours before flight time, it is unlikely they are going to sell those 5 seats, especially in the middle of the night. As well, out of 24 or so reservations, it is unlikely that there will be no no-shows, especially since there is no penalty for cancelling or changing a J fare.
6. Upgrades are much more readily available to E/P members, but I think you are making it harder on yourself. If you are really concerned, there are a couple of strategies to increase your odds. Book unpopular flights, especially later in the day. This also allows you to take an earlier flight in the day on a standby basis. [I'm not sure how the new "mandatory" change fee policy will affect this option, though.] I regularly do this. (Only partly for upgrade reasons. I also like to have the extra day, or half day, to deal with any last minute problems, which are common in my job.) And remember, if you think that things at CP have changed so much that it's hard for E/Ps to get upgrades, imagine what it would be like if you were still a Gold. These are tough times for CP, and survival is the priority.
And if all else fails, use a black sticker. You should be getting 4 of them shortly, and another 4 in February. And I gather you still have 2 from your Gold package.
The only time I haven't been upgraded since the summer of '97 was on YYZ-YVR, a few days before Christmas '97, and after I had to change the flight I was on, on the day of travel. I've only used a few black SWA stickers domesticly, and those were for "transcontinental" flights. (Real transcontinental, as in across Canada [YYJ-YVR-YYZ-YHZ-YYT, 3937 miles, 'bout the same as ORD-LHR]. Not those wimpy US transcontinentals, like SFO-JFK. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif )
So relax. If there are any upgrades seats available, at any time, you'll almost certainly get one.
I think you're getting too worked up over all of this. Remember this is not an entitlement, but a privilige, to be extended whenever possible. Several points come to mind:
1. The upgrades should never displace paying customers. If CP can fill the J class with paying customers, I'm all for it, given their current financial status. The alternative is an airline monopoly in Canada, with absolutely no need for a FF program or FF benefits, as you will have no choice in airline.
2. Even with 15 apparently empty seats at the 100 hour mark, it would appear CP knows what they are doing. After all, they were able to sell 10 premium high dollar seats over the next day or two.
3. Don't worry about when you are upgraded. The only one who will get upgraded before you is another Executive Platinum who requested the upgrade before you. So whether you get the upgrade at 100 hrs or 4 hours, your place in the line up to get upgrades will stay the same. Nobody can bump you down. (This is quite different from when you are a Gold. The longer you have to wait for an upgrade, the more chance their is for a Platinum to push you down the list. As a Platinum, your place in the line is secure.) The only difference between advance and standby upgrades, is when you know. I don't think this will really affect your flight experience, however.
4. The only way you will not get upgraded, is if somebody pays $3000-$4000 for the seat, and after all, CP is really in the business of selling seats, not giving them away. And they'd pretty much have to sell all of the seats at that price, to block your upgrade.
5. As you said, there will probably be only 1 or 2 Platinums on the flight. That means you 1 or 2 will have priority over every other flyer, short of a full J fare customer. With less than 12 hours before flight time, it is unlikely they are going to sell those 5 seats, especially in the middle of the night. As well, out of 24 or so reservations, it is unlikely that there will be no no-shows, especially since there is no penalty for cancelling or changing a J fare.
6. Upgrades are much more readily available to E/P members, but I think you are making it harder on yourself. If you are really concerned, there are a couple of strategies to increase your odds. Book unpopular flights, especially later in the day. This also allows you to take an earlier flight in the day on a standby basis. [I'm not sure how the new "mandatory" change fee policy will affect this option, though.] I regularly do this. (Only partly for upgrade reasons. I also like to have the extra day, or half day, to deal with any last minute problems, which are common in my job.) And remember, if you think that things at CP have changed so much that it's hard for E/Ps to get upgrades, imagine what it would be like if you were still a Gold. These are tough times for CP, and survival is the priority.
And if all else fails, use a black sticker. You should be getting 4 of them shortly, and another 4 in February. And I gather you still have 2 from your Gold package.
The only time I haven't been upgraded since the summer of '97 was on YYZ-YVR, a few days before Christmas '97, and after I had to change the flight I was on, on the day of travel. I've only used a few black SWA stickers domesticly, and those were for "transcontinental" flights. (Real transcontinental, as in across Canada [YYJ-YVR-YYZ-YHZ-YYT, 3937 miles, 'bout the same as ORD-LHR]. Not those wimpy US transcontinentals, like SFO-JFK. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif )
So relax. If there are any upgrades seats available, at any time, you'll almost certainly get one.
Nov 30, 1999, 2:45 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: MEX/YVR/YYF
Programs: AS MVP/AC75K/AM Gold/UA*S/SPG-Marriott Lifetime Titanium/Accor-FPC Gold/HHDiamond/Hyatt Exp
Posts: 5,035
I tend to agree with KH on this one. It is easy for CPlus EP and Gold to feel a true sense of entitlement to upgrades on absolutely every flight, simply due to the fact that we travel so frequently with CP, however, we should be happy for CP if they sell J seats instead of giving upgrades. My only request is that CP fine tune it's R and U availability within Sabre to reflect reality on certain flights.
A person can exhaust themselves by checking and rechecking on R availability prior to flight departure which, in my opinion, is too stressful and time-consuming. The airport stand-by has almost always worked for me except for two times between YVR-YYC over three years as Gold.
A person can exhaust themselves by checking and rechecking on R availability prior to flight departure which, in my opinion, is too stressful and time-consuming. The airport stand-by has almost always worked for me except for two times between YVR-YYC over three years as Gold.
Nov 30, 1999, 8:07 pm
#4
Company Representative - Air Canada
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
Thanks Ken...
I guess I am just starting to get used to EP life.
Here's what happened..
I did get the upgraded. The gate agent even had my new boarding pass printed waiting for me to show up. I don't even had to wait for the 20 mins release mark. That was defintely a surprise for me! In fact, I was first on the upgrade list. So maybe I am over reacting about this.
I too would also like to see CP stay in the air as long as they can.
Another surprise when I return home today, found my EP package already here and it was mailed by XpressPost.
BTW Ken...does CP has those certs which you give to CP's employee for good service like other airlines?
Thanks again for all the advice Ken.
Regards,
Empress
I guess I am just starting to get used to EP life.
Here's what happened..
I did get the upgraded. The gate agent even had my new boarding pass printed waiting for me to show up. I don't even had to wait for the 20 mins release mark. That was defintely a surprise for me! In fact, I was first on the upgrade list. So maybe I am over reacting about this.
I too would also like to see CP stay in the air as long as they can.
Another surprise when I return home today, found my EP package already here and it was mailed by XpressPost.
BTW Ken...does CP has those certs which you give to CP's employee for good service like other airlines?
Thanks again for all the advice Ken.
Regards,
Empress