No sale for Canadian
May 4, 1999, 10:26 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 34
No sale for Canadian
Air Canada has recently put out a seat sale, it is advertised both in the website and in the paper. I called CP and ask them whether they will have a same sale, they said they don't even know AC has a sale and they said it is up to marketing department to figure it out.
Also, just heard on the news that CP posted a 107 million lost in the first quarter ending March 31 and they lost 137 million all last year. Is that a sign of trouble to come???
Also, just heard on the news that CP posted a 107 million lost in the first quarter ending March 31 and they lost 137 million all last year. Is that a sign of trouble to come???
May 5, 1999, 2:57 pm
#2
Join Date: May 1998
Location: YYZ
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan, Cathay Pacific Asia Miles
Posts: 624
Hmm, dangers? Troubles? I don't so think, at least not for this year. Personally, I really don't like markets that without competitions. Furthermore, I don't think Canadians like monopoly either, so does the Canadian government. However, I believe there'll be some big changes at CP this year. No matter they'll have a new investor or they'll set up a discount airlines, I think either way is good for Canadian and our country. Well, let see what happens next... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
May 5, 1999, 3:40 pm
#3
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: FLL
Programs: Delta
Posts: 1,755
I hope Canadian stays in the air. AC needs the competition!
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May 10, 1999, 8:23 am
#4
Founder of FlyerTalk
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 6,540
We've receieved a number of calls lately from Canadina Plus members worried about the financial status if this airline. We too agree that healthy competition is important to all travelers. Does anyone have additional input regarding their concerns?
May 10, 1999, 9:40 am
#5
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
When considering the CP losses please consider the following:
- Just like AC, CP suffered as a result of exceptional weather in the last 12 months.
- CP are yet to post results which include revenues from OneWorld.
- CP have invested heavily in capital equipement, branding and service improvements. This is at a time when AC have significantly reduced planned investment in this area.
- CP's yield and capacity figures for Q1 1999 were all moving in the right direction.
- CP is lobbying the Canadian government for an increase in the overseas investment threshold.
In summary, while AC has cut back services and investment, CP has invested heavily. The effects of this are visible in their market share figures - in particular at the profitable premium end - even on this board 6 months ago CP was considered a lamb-duck with inferior service. That view is changing (scan over recent posts for evidence of this).
Also consider that we on this board have a tainted view as AC has an exceptional FFP whereas CP has a godd FFP. Because FFPs are our particular interest we attach a significance to them which your average passenger does not.
In a difficult market, CP has strongly positioned itself. As the lack of investment at AC becomes visable over the next couple of years you may well see things change in the Canadian market.
Nick
- Just like AC, CP suffered as a result of exceptional weather in the last 12 months.
- CP are yet to post results which include revenues from OneWorld.
- CP have invested heavily in capital equipement, branding and service improvements. This is at a time when AC have significantly reduced planned investment in this area.
- CP's yield and capacity figures for Q1 1999 were all moving in the right direction.
- CP is lobbying the Canadian government for an increase in the overseas investment threshold.
In summary, while AC has cut back services and investment, CP has invested heavily. The effects of this are visible in their market share figures - in particular at the profitable premium end - even on this board 6 months ago CP was considered a lamb-duck with inferior service. That view is changing (scan over recent posts for evidence of this).
Also consider that we on this board have a tainted view as AC has an exceptional FFP whereas CP has a godd FFP. Because FFPs are our particular interest we attach a significance to them which your average passenger does not.
In a difficult market, CP has strongly positioned itself. As the lack of investment at AC becomes visable over the next couple of years you may well see things change in the Canadian market.
Nick
May 10, 1999, 10:49 am
#6
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Half the World & More and then some.
Programs: BA, SQ, AA, QF, CX, VS
Posts: 1,202
Jolly good show, Merry!
May 11, 1999, 12:04 am
#7
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Another Canadian's view:
Having flown both AC and CP regularly for several years, my feeling is that AC's service/performance has slowly but steadily declined, while CP's has slowly and sporadically increased. This is not to say that AC is bad, as any one who has connected to/from an AC flight to a US carrier will probably attest. But even today in the Air Canada forum, people are dissappointed to find that AC is dis-continuing the sale of certain types of upgrades. This is just one more step in that (downward) direction. CP on the other hand, is increasing the seat pitch in J class, improving food services and lounges, and so on. There is also talk of layoffs at Air Canada, to stem the losses they too are showing.
Perhaps more important though, is the Canadian political situation. Regardless of what politicians in Canada say about not providing any financial assistance to CP, the political fallout of Canadian closing down would be just too great. We have a long history of politicians saying there is no money available, and shortly thereafter providing such. A recent example in British Columbia saw the provincial (not federal) government provide more that $200 million to a pulp mill, and by some estimates, that number may rise to half a billion. This to a much smaller business employing many times fewer employees than Canadian Airlines, and with a much smaller economic effect.
So when a Canadian politician says we have no money for you, what it really means is, "We want you to look elsewhere first, and look hard. We will provide whatever assistance we can in terms of legislation of other government action, but you're not getting any money for now." If that fails, both the western provincial governments and the federal government will most likely step in with some type of financial assistance, especially with the ferderal government showing healthy budget surplus, a federal election looming, and the popularity of a western Canadian pastime called "Fed-bashing."
My guess is the first stop along that road will be to allow greater foreign ownership of Canadian, but not more than 49%, at least not yet. Soveriegnty issues are almost as important here as jobs, politically speaking.
Regards,
Ken Hamer
Vancouver, BC
P.S. Merry
1. I didn't understand your comment about "Also consider that we on this board have a tainted view as AC has an exceptional FFP whereas CP has a good FFP." Can you elaborate?
2. You forgot to include the "Asian Flu" in the list of exceptional events that have caused Canadian Airlines some grief over the last year. Air Canada has had very little presence in Asia, whereas it is a large part of Canadian's business. This too is showing improvement in the coming year.
[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 05-11-99).]
Having flown both AC and CP regularly for several years, my feeling is that AC's service/performance has slowly but steadily declined, while CP's has slowly and sporadically increased. This is not to say that AC is bad, as any one who has connected to/from an AC flight to a US carrier will probably attest. But even today in the Air Canada forum, people are dissappointed to find that AC is dis-continuing the sale of certain types of upgrades. This is just one more step in that (downward) direction. CP on the other hand, is increasing the seat pitch in J class, improving food services and lounges, and so on. There is also talk of layoffs at Air Canada, to stem the losses they too are showing.
Perhaps more important though, is the Canadian political situation. Regardless of what politicians in Canada say about not providing any financial assistance to CP, the political fallout of Canadian closing down would be just too great. We have a long history of politicians saying there is no money available, and shortly thereafter providing such. A recent example in British Columbia saw the provincial (not federal) government provide more that $200 million to a pulp mill, and by some estimates, that number may rise to half a billion. This to a much smaller business employing many times fewer employees than Canadian Airlines, and with a much smaller economic effect.
So when a Canadian politician says we have no money for you, what it really means is, "We want you to look elsewhere first, and look hard. We will provide whatever assistance we can in terms of legislation of other government action, but you're not getting any money for now." If that fails, both the western provincial governments and the federal government will most likely step in with some type of financial assistance, especially with the ferderal government showing healthy budget surplus, a federal election looming, and the popularity of a western Canadian pastime called "Fed-bashing."
My guess is the first stop along that road will be to allow greater foreign ownership of Canadian, but not more than 49%, at least not yet. Soveriegnty issues are almost as important here as jobs, politically speaking.
Regards,
Ken Hamer
Vancouver, BC
P.S. Merry
1. I didn't understand your comment about "Also consider that we on this board have a tainted view as AC has an exceptional FFP whereas CP has a good FFP." Can you elaborate?
2. You forgot to include the "Asian Flu" in the list of exceptional events that have caused Canadian Airlines some grief over the last year. Air Canada has had very little presence in Asia, whereas it is a large part of Canadian's business. This too is showing improvement in the coming year.
[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 05-11-99).]