Complaints about Customs
Apr 9, 2008, 10:52 pm
#62
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 97
Oh, CBSA people are reading this thread... then I've had *nothing* but *very pleasant* experiences at the border! But seriously, I appreciate having someone from CBSA on this board-- it feels more like a discussion than a rant session.
We've used a section of the regs involving seminar leaders to cross the border without a work permit. Some of the primary agents know about this reg and let us right through. Others divert us to immigration. This seems to happen most often at the smaller border crossings. Once in immigration, it seems to be a bit of a crap shoot. Sometimes we have to wait a very long time for something which we've been cleared for over and over. Once we reach the front of the line, sometimes we're processed through quickly, other times the officers wave us through with instructions about what to bring with us next time (it's rarely the same advice), and sometimes the agent has to make us wrong before he lets us through. We've only been denied once, for a person who had a felony on his record. So it's mainly the hassle factor.
We discovered that by applying for Nexus, we could answer the questions once and be done with it. Now trips involve no discussion at all. My only beef with Nexus is that it takes 4 months to book an appointment at YVR. Also, it takes 45 minutes to update drivers license information (isn't this a simple database update?) and then we have to go to the U.S. side and go through the same process, which takes the same amount of time.
U.S. customs has been much more nightmarish for our Canadian collegues. We've gotten our congressman involved in our issues, though because of national security issues not even the president of the U.S. can override a decision made by a customs officer. This causes no end to our problems, as custom agents seem to make their decisions arbitrarily, particularly when they believe you're lying ("Oh, you say you're entering the U.S. to do *volunteer* work so you don't need a green card? We'll see about that...") One of our Canadian friends has been searched, interrogated for several hours on multiple occasions, and turned back enough times that we were advised that the next time he might be banned for 5 years. Other times he sails right through. However, we've stopped risking a ban and are now in the process of getting an L-1 visa even though he technically doesn't need one. He's chosen not to enter the U.S. for nearly a year during this process.
So getting inconvenienced a little bit is a small price to pay for the privelege of entering Canada a dozen or so times a year.
We've used a section of the regs involving seminar leaders to cross the border without a work permit. Some of the primary agents know about this reg and let us right through. Others divert us to immigration. This seems to happen most often at the smaller border crossings. Once in immigration, it seems to be a bit of a crap shoot. Sometimes we have to wait a very long time for something which we've been cleared for over and over. Once we reach the front of the line, sometimes we're processed through quickly, other times the officers wave us through with instructions about what to bring with us next time (it's rarely the same advice), and sometimes the agent has to make us wrong before he lets us through. We've only been denied once, for a person who had a felony on his record. So it's mainly the hassle factor.
We discovered that by applying for Nexus, we could answer the questions once and be done with it. Now trips involve no discussion at all. My only beef with Nexus is that it takes 4 months to book an appointment at YVR. Also, it takes 45 minutes to update drivers license information (isn't this a simple database update?) and then we have to go to the U.S. side and go through the same process, which takes the same amount of time.
U.S. customs has been much more nightmarish for our Canadian collegues. We've gotten our congressman involved in our issues, though because of national security issues not even the president of the U.S. can override a decision made by a customs officer. This causes no end to our problems, as custom agents seem to make their decisions arbitrarily, particularly when they believe you're lying ("Oh, you say you're entering the U.S. to do *volunteer* work so you don't need a green card? We'll see about that...") One of our Canadian friends has been searched, interrogated for several hours on multiple occasions, and turned back enough times that we were advised that the next time he might be banned for 5 years. Other times he sails right through. However, we've stopped risking a ban and are now in the process of getting an L-1 visa even though he technically doesn't need one. He's chosen not to enter the U.S. for nearly a year during this process.
So getting inconvenienced a little bit is a small price to pay for the privelege of entering Canada a dozen or so times a year.
Apr 9, 2008, 10:53 pm
#63
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 97
I have not had very much interaction with an immigration officer since I received my CANPASS (and now NEXUS) years ago. (I think I’ve had my card for about 7 years now – has it been that long?)
When I have had interaction with a CBS officer (before CANPASS/NEXUS) it has been generally painless.
My wife use to ask me, why I would go to the CANPASS/NEXUS machines when there was not a single person in the immigration hall. I told my wife, the less I have to deal with any immigration officer from any country the happier I am.
One time my wife was returning back to YYZ and met up with a very rude and ignorant immigration officer. My wife had been visiting me for a couple of days mid-week in FLL (I work in the US on a TN). She also has had a CANPASS/NEXUS for years. Ever since that point in time, the immigration hall may not have a single person in line and she’s bellying up to the NEXUS machines without exception!
As far as the customs card, I believe Canada’s cards are efficient. Many from other countries have commented to me how nice it is to have one card for immigration and custom purposes. In addition someone once said to me that Stats Can also uses them however I’m not sure if this is true.
As far as lining up to see an immigration officer, before NEXUS I would line up and never change lines. I figure someone is looking around to see if people are jumping lines. I only would move over if someone called me over.
I remember a buddy of mine and I went to IAH for the wkend. It was when AC first started to fly there and there was an introductory fare. We got back to YYZ late in the evening (but on time). It was around 23h00. The immigration hall at T-2 was packed. We were in line for about 40 minutes. When we got to the immigration officer the lady started off by saying – all in good humour “I have a question for both of you. For the last 20 minutes you have been in this line and smiling, laughing and joking while everyone else have been upset for waiting so long. Why?”. So my friend, who was a controller for the company that I worked for (and I reported to him) said, I told my friend (me) that when I get to the counter I’m going to tell her the penis joke and he has been trying to convince me not to tell you the joke. So we ended up telling the joke and the three of us laughed and off we went.
But generally, like others have stated, I won’t go to a female immigration officer - never been sent to secondary but oh so many questions. Another time my same friend in the above story and I were coming back from PLS where my brother lives. The female immigration officer asked me what I bought and if I bought any gifts for anyone else. I mentioned I bought x, for myself and a, b, c, d, e for my wife total of $500 for the week. The immigration officer then asked my friend what he bought and he said $40. She then asked him two more times (total of three) if that’s all he bought. He finally said it was only $40 because “I’m not married”. I started to stifle my laugh. She looked at me. I said nothing and she sent both of us on our way.
Actually – just one exception about going to a female officer. On occasion, when I flew in YYZ late into the evening, there was one female immigration officer that was a hot blonde who wore black-rim glasses. I would always go to her post every time.
When I have had interaction with a CBS officer (before CANPASS/NEXUS) it has been generally painless.
My wife use to ask me, why I would go to the CANPASS/NEXUS machines when there was not a single person in the immigration hall. I told my wife, the less I have to deal with any immigration officer from any country the happier I am.
One time my wife was returning back to YYZ and met up with a very rude and ignorant immigration officer. My wife had been visiting me for a couple of days mid-week in FLL (I work in the US on a TN). She also has had a CANPASS/NEXUS for years. Ever since that point in time, the immigration hall may not have a single person in line and she’s bellying up to the NEXUS machines without exception!
As far as the customs card, I believe Canada’s cards are efficient. Many from other countries have commented to me how nice it is to have one card for immigration and custom purposes. In addition someone once said to me that Stats Can also uses them however I’m not sure if this is true.
As far as lining up to see an immigration officer, before NEXUS I would line up and never change lines. I figure someone is looking around to see if people are jumping lines. I only would move over if someone called me over.
I remember a buddy of mine and I went to IAH for the wkend. It was when AC first started to fly there and there was an introductory fare. We got back to YYZ late in the evening (but on time). It was around 23h00. The immigration hall at T-2 was packed. We were in line for about 40 minutes. When we got to the immigration officer the lady started off by saying – all in good humour “I have a question for both of you. For the last 20 minutes you have been in this line and smiling, laughing and joking while everyone else have been upset for waiting so long. Why?”. So my friend, who was a controller for the company that I worked for (and I reported to him) said, I told my friend (me) that when I get to the counter I’m going to tell her the penis joke and he has been trying to convince me not to tell you the joke. So we ended up telling the joke and the three of us laughed and off we went.
But generally, like others have stated, I won’t go to a female immigration officer - never been sent to secondary but oh so many questions. Another time my same friend in the above story and I were coming back from PLS where my brother lives. The female immigration officer asked me what I bought and if I bought any gifts for anyone else. I mentioned I bought x, for myself and a, b, c, d, e for my wife total of $500 for the week. The immigration officer then asked my friend what he bought and he said $40. She then asked him two more times (total of three) if that’s all he bought. He finally said it was only $40 because “I’m not married”. I started to stifle my laugh. She looked at me. I said nothing and she sent both of us on our way.
Actually – just one exception about going to a female officer. On occasion, when I flew in YYZ late into the evening, there was one female immigration officer that was a hot blonde who wore black-rim glasses. I would always go to her post every time.
Apr 9, 2008, 10:57 pm
#64
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 97
My wife returned from a weekend trip on her airmiles to SF and when asked why she had gone, replied " visiting an old boy friend" - this referred to an old boy friend(20yrs ago) and his wife who we are both friendly with. The agent looked through her passport and spied a customs stamp from Mexico some months earlier (we had gone there for vacation) and said: Well then, who did you go to Mexico with? She dutifully replied "my husband" but was actually annoyed that such a question was asked. This seems like an invasion of privacy and was uncalled for especially since there was no other reason to question my wife who is as average as they come (married 25yrs, 2 1/2 kids, suburbs, works full-time). Is this justified and can a person tell customs it's none of your business (at the risk of a 6hr search and delay, of course).
"Subject to this section, every person arriving in Canada shall, except in such circumstances and subject to such conditions as may be prescribed, enter Canada only at a customs office designated for that purpose that is open for business and without delay present himself or herself to an officer and answer truthfully any questions asked by the officer in the performance of his or her duties under this or any other Act of Parliament."
Apr 9, 2008, 11:13 pm
#65
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 97
Welcome CBSAguy hopefully the complaints wont be too much to take
I'll try and keep this short...
a few questions.
1) Why does CBSA feel the need to check passports when disembarking a plane rather than at the customs and immigration point?
I really really find this highly annoying and am about to complain to my MP about this behaviour. You just come off a long haul flight, are tired, restless and probably want to stretch your legs a bit and you have to wait in a long lineup for two customs officials to do a "pre" clearance scan? Whats the point?
2) When I exit the baggage claim area with my bag once I was talking on my cell phone to someone outside and the guy got pissed. Is there a rule not to use your cell phone at that point? I cant see what the problem was because when you hand him the customs form he'll only pull you aside if their is a problem, so why cant you talk on your phone?
I'll try and keep this short...
a few questions.
1) Why does CBSA feel the need to check passports when disembarking a plane rather than at the customs and immigration point?
I really really find this highly annoying and am about to complain to my MP about this behaviour. You just come off a long haul flight, are tired, restless and probably want to stretch your legs a bit and you have to wait in a long lineup for two customs officials to do a "pre" clearance scan? Whats the point?
2) When I exit the baggage claim area with my bag once I was talking on my cell phone to someone outside and the guy got pissed. Is there a rule not to use your cell phone at that point? I cant see what the problem was because when you hand him the customs form he'll only pull you aside if their is a problem, so why cant you talk on your phone?
Answer 1: I'll quote a publically-accessible CIC manual -
The purpose of screening disembarking passengers is to identify and segregate persons not in possession of passports or travel documents from the normal flow of passengers. In addition, inadmissible travellers who may pose a risk or who are otherwise inadmissible can be identified through intelligence-based indicators such as identified trends, lookouts and Advanced Passenger Information/Passenger Name Record (API/PNR) information received from Passenger Analysis Units (PAU).
Disembarkation screening also enables an officer to identify which airline has carried an improperly documented passenger to Canada and ensures that the CBSA can levy administration fees and removal costs against a liable transporter. When two international flights arrive within a brief period of time, for example, passengers from each flight may intermingle at the Primary Inspection Line (PIL). This can make it difficult to determine which carrier brought an improperly documented passenger to Canada and to properly
assess liability.
On-board inspections, disembarkation screening, pre-PIL roving and post-PIL activities are part of the examination continuum. At these preliminary checks, the DART officer does not do a full examination and does not make a decision to authorize or deny entry. Instead, the officer verifies that a passenger has the necessary documentation and refers undocumented and suspected inadmissible persons to Immigration Secondary for an indepth examination. This does not usurp the authority of PIL as DART referrals do not bypass PIL.
Answer 2: Please don't chit-chat on your cell phone at the exit from the baggage hall. In Terminal 1, at least, there is a "no cell phone" decal on the pillar right between the two officers. Quite honestly, it's just plain rude and very often holds up the queue. I never talk on my cell phone when I'm paying for my slice of pizza at Pizza Pizza. Most people extend the same courtesy.
Also, keep in mind that the officers at the exit make the final decision whether to refer a traveller in for a secondary examination or whether to release him. A person may be coded in by the primary officer, but if everything seems to jive at the exit, that same person may be released. This often involves a couple of supplementary questions by the officer at the exit and it's tough to have a conversation with someone when you're on the phone with someone else.
Apr 9, 2008, 11:14 pm
#66
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 97
Apr 9, 2008, 11:15 pm
#67
Flying Blue Director
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
...did I make ANY sense here?
Apr 9, 2008, 11:27 pm
#69
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BKK
Programs: None. I'm cured.
Posts: 825
I've always found the questions asked by Canadian officers to be intrusive, sometimes rude and frequently annoying. It must be a uniquely North American thing.
There have been many instances where I have been very tempted to indeed say" It's none of your business!" but have refrained due to the certain cavity search that would follow.
The form clearly asks what amount of money was spent outside Canada, if you are bringing in any food items, and what quantities of alcohol etc. were purchased abroad.
In this context, I detest being asked "what exactly did I purchase?".... my reply of " nothing illegal, no food, tobacco or alcohol and I did not go over my maximum allowed spend" has always been insufficient.
Thankfully, as I am no longer a Canadian resident, the questions have improved markedly.
And I'm even more grateful that I never have to endure any of these kinds of questions whenever I enter most other countries outside North America.
Somehow most of the world can cope well without knowing if I purchased a jumper and two pairs of socks while in London.
Mcm.
There have been many instances where I have been very tempted to indeed say" It's none of your business!" but have refrained due to the certain cavity search that would follow.
The form clearly asks what amount of money was spent outside Canada, if you are bringing in any food items, and what quantities of alcohol etc. were purchased abroad.
In this context, I detest being asked "what exactly did I purchase?".... my reply of " nothing illegal, no food, tobacco or alcohol and I did not go over my maximum allowed spend" has always been insufficient.
Thankfully, as I am no longer a Canadian resident, the questions have improved markedly.
And I'm even more grateful that I never have to endure any of these kinds of questions whenever I enter most other countries outside North America.
Somehow most of the world can cope well without knowing if I purchased a jumper and two pairs of socks while in London.
Mcm.
Apr 10, 2008, 1:46 am
#70
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: AC.SE
Posts: 2,578
Originally Posted by Minicooperman;
In this context, I detest being asked "what exactly did I purchase?".... my reply of " nothing illegal, no food, tobacco or alcohol and I did not go over my maximum allowed spend" has always been insufficient.
Apr 10, 2008, 7:26 am
#71
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
Programs: Marriott (Lifetime Titantium), whatever other programs as benefits make sense.
Posts: 1,920
Of course, there would be a separate line up for the NEXUS machines, now that I have my card.
Greg
Apr 10, 2008, 7:34 am
#72
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC E75K *G
Posts: 7,108
1) Why does CBSA feel the need to check passports when disembarking a plane rather than at the customs and immigration point?
I really really find this highly annoying and am about to complain to my MP about this behaviour. You just come off a long haul flight, are tired, restless and probably want to stretch your legs a bit and you have to wait in a long lineup for two customs officials to do a "pre" clearance scan? Whats the point?
I really really find this highly annoying and am about to complain to my MP about this behaviour. You just come off a long haul flight, are tired, restless and probably want to stretch your legs a bit and you have to wait in a long lineup for two customs officials to do a "pre" clearance scan? Whats the point?
It would be nice, perhaps, to have some sort of digitized recognition system at each arrival gate; however, that would raise privacy concerns (justified or not), it could be very costly (and at YYZ they need all that money to fix the high speed walkway out to the int's pier), and it would have to be designed to work with people who might be actively trying to avoid detection.
Apr 10, 2008, 8:09 am
#73
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 97
I guess it depends on how you define the bolded section...I would not consider the question about Mexico to be any of the officer's business, and would tell them so. Who I went with on a particular trip in the past (and after which I had rightfully been granted readmission into Canada) does not have anything to do with why I am coming back into the country at the present, and thus is not applicable under the Act.
...did I make ANY sense here?
...did I make ANY sense here?
Apr 10, 2008, 8:20 am
#74
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 97
I've always found the questions asked by Canadian officers to be intrusive, sometimes rude and frequently annoying. It must be a uniquely North American thing.
There have been many instances where I have been very tempted to indeed say" It's none of your business!" but have refrained due to the certain cavity search that would follow.
The form clearly asks what amount of money was spent outside Canada, if you are bringing in any food items, and what quantities of alcohol etc. were purchased abroad.
In this context, I detest being asked "what exactly did I purchase?".... my reply of " nothing illegal, no food, tobacco or alcohol and I did not go over my maximum allowed spend" has always been insufficient.
Thankfully, as I am no longer a Canadian resident, the questions have improved markedly.
And I'm even more grateful that I never have to endure any of these kinds of questions whenever I enter most other countries outside North America.
Somehow most of the world can cope well without knowing if I purchased a jumper and two pairs of socks while in London.
Mcm.
There have been many instances where I have been very tempted to indeed say" It's none of your business!" but have refrained due to the certain cavity search that would follow.
The form clearly asks what amount of money was spent outside Canada, if you are bringing in any food items, and what quantities of alcohol etc. were purchased abroad.
In this context, I detest being asked "what exactly did I purchase?".... my reply of " nothing illegal, no food, tobacco or alcohol and I did not go over my maximum allowed spend" has always been insufficient.
Thankfully, as I am no longer a Canadian resident, the questions have improved markedly.
And I'm even more grateful that I never have to endure any of these kinds of questions whenever I enter most other countries outside North America.
Somehow most of the world can cope well without knowing if I purchased a jumper and two pairs of socks while in London.
Mcm.
Apr 10, 2008, 8:51 am
#75
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 57
Thanks for the reply, CBSAguy but this response from you possibly highlights the problem. I fully support CBSA in detecting the actual evildoers but shouldn't Canadian citizens have a right to move freely across the border many times to many countries and not have an imaginative CBSA person ask intrusive questions? Where exactly was the CBSA person going with no other clue other than my wife goes on more than one vacation a year? The question " Who did you go with to Mexico?" is none of CBSAs business without any more direct cause for suspicion - perhaps CBSAs need more training in what ordinary people do in their lives. The general consensus among travellers I speak to is that your questions have become more and more intrusive and frankly rude over the years. You need to find a better way of finding the evildoers rather than make everyone who goes through customs feel like a criminal - that is what Right to Privacy is all about.