Ken hAAmer

On what do you base this assumption?

Ken hAAmer

Nevertheless, it's still an unavoidable C$15.00 cost to use YUL, as opposed to the maximum PFC of U$3.00 at PBG.

In my car, at today's BC gas prices, less than 64% of the fees listed above.

YOWkid

I already explained.

Ken hAAmer

That flies in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. At the 2 major BC/WA boarder crossings there is a continuous non-stop flow of people through the NEXUS lanes. It seems unlikely that these are all "business" travellers. In fact it's more likely the majority of them are day-trippers off to Bellis Fair for a day of shopping, 19 and 20 year olds coming to BC for a drink, or some other similar group.

And now that the same NEXUS card can be used for Land, Sea and Air crossings, it's likely that even more non-business/recreational users will obtain a NEXUS card.

YOWkid

I never said it wasn't unavoidable. I'm pointing out that it is NOT a government tax and it should therefore not be classified as one.

That's fine. I'm throwing it out as a point for consideration.

YOWkid

Prove the overwhelming evidence. Do you have the profile numbers?

I don't disagree that more non-business/recreational users will subscribe to Nexus. I am saying though that there aren't that many non-business types.

Ken hAAmer

So what you're saying is that people who are prepared to drive some distance across an international border (with all that that entails) to save potentially mega-bucks, won't go to the trouble or expense of obtaining a NEXUS card to make it easier and faster to save those mega-bucks?

Do I have that right?

YOWkid

Yup, you have that right.

A lot of people don't know about it or won't go into the trouble of getting it for an annual trip and will argue that it's not worth it.

Why do you think there are so many people out there who fly but aren't members of a frequent flyer program? Exact same reasons. Foreign to you and me and hard to believe, but that's reality.

Also the same reason why airlines like Ryanair thrive. People do not always make rational decisions when it comes to air travel. For example, why would someone travel by bus for four hours from Brighton to STN so they can fly to Frankfurt Hahn only to travel by bus for another hour to go to Frankfurt when the flight and bus costs the same thing as to fly from LHR to FRA and then take the train into the City Centre and be there in less amount of time?

Ken hAAmer

For me, as I suspect for most people, my time is not worth as much as my comfort.

In any case, if you're arguing that people won't spend a "measly dollar" on a NEXUS card which could save them a lot of time, then clearly the money saved by flying out of the US is likely to be worth a lot of time.

Ken hAAmer

Certainly not to my satisfaction. I wonder if anyone else is satisfied with the "explanation."

And if you're suggesting that businesses and business travellers won't bother to go to the trouble of crossing the border to save money, then I can only presume you haven't heard the almost universal mantra of so many businesses, including airlines, are operating on -- that being cut costs at all costs.

Furthermore, there's been a steady stream of comments in this and other forums over the past months and years that airlines such as Air Canada are doing the right thing by cutting back one benefit or service after another after another after another, because low fares trump all other considerations for the vast majority of passengers. If that's truly the case, then an hour drive south to save a few hundred dollars or more (and with a bonus of free airport parking) will be a nominal inconvenience for those fare concious travellers that are reputedly the norm.

YOWkid

And that's fine -- great for you! But, I know that for many others, they will say otherwise. Or they will equate to the same and look for a compromise. I'm of the latter, for example. Many of my colleagues would say the second. This is all personal.

Or like I said, they may not know about it.

CZBB

Ah, but from Brighton, You'd be silly to travel all the way into [north] into London, back out again [west] and fly from heathrow for 5x the price of any other UK airport.

I would offer the following as being A LOT faster than LHR-FRA (and a heck of a lot cheaper). From Brighton;
Train to Southampton, SOU-FRA on FlyBE
Train to Gatwick, LGW-CGN, train to Frankfurt

The bottom line is there's almost always a better, cheaper deal with the LCCs if you do your homework.

YOWkid

Ok, fine. Let's look at this situation:

A) Fly YUL-SEA. Let's say total flying time is 8 hours including connections and being there on time. 600$ CAD airfare (using it as a figure to illustrate example). Salary time at say $70/hr (cash+benefits+vacation pay)=$578. Total 1238$.

B) Fly PBG-SEA. Let's say total driving time is 1.5 hr and flight time including connections and being there on time is 8 hours. Airfare is 400$. Rental car for trip (let's say four days)=$175 after all fees. Parking is free. Salary costs=$735 for straight and OT. Total 1310$.

So, are savings really that great for the business person? Now I know you're going to argue that some people don't get paid for OT or get time in lieu of pay. Fine. But my point still stands. It's not that black and white.

(Oh, and not to mention your comfort may be at risk because of the extra time it takes.)

I don't disagree. But like I said, your typical business traveller will not go through such inconvenience and you would need a significant number of leisure travellers to do this before such an impact is felt on the bottom line of Canada's air carriers. In other words, not enough people do it. Sure, some do. But not enough. That's the point I'm making. For years everyone has known that BUF and SEA are cheaper to fly out of. Well, if price trumped absolutely everything, then why do YYZ and YVR still have people flying in and out of them?

Ken hAAmer

How do you figure?

The population of the greater Vancouver area is a little over 2 million. The population of Seattle is a little bit more. Throw in the various small communites in between and you're probably looking at 5 million.

Now what's the population of the greater Montreal area? And all those smaller but still significant centres like Cornwall and surrounding area? All those communities in northern NY, Vermont, and New Hampshire? Even in the rural communites south of Montreal there are a lot more people than there are in the area outside Greater Vancouver. Past Whistler or Hope there ain't nuthin! Go a couple km north of my office in North Van and you'll find nothing but mountains for hundreds of km.

And forget Federal Way, WA -- even people in Renton/SeaTac are a lot, lot further from BLI than anyone in Montreal is from Plattsburg.

Simon

There are also a non-trivial number of people not really interested in having "the government ", especially the US one, having access to their eye scan info, etc.

Look at how many people don't even have a passport. But they're going to get a NEXUS card?

Simon