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Returning to Canada without PR card ?

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Old Jul 26, 2004 | 5:39 pm
  #1  
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Returning to Canada without PR card ?

Question to all:

The new travel rules require plastic permanent resident cards for folks returning to Canada from the USA if they hold what was the IMM1000 landing record.

I have an employee who applied for one some four months ago, and is still waiting. He needs to go on a business trip to the USA at the end of this week. How much aggro will CIC give him if he tries to re-enter Canada without one ?

There is mention of a temporary travel document at $50 CAD that has to be issued in person. Sadly there is no office near his travel destination, and this frankly seems like a blatent tax on new arrivals to Canada to pay for the gvt's incompetence in issuing paperwork in a timely manner.

What say ye, worthy canuk travellers ?

Cheers,
Ben.
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Old Jul 26, 2004 | 6:03 pm
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Probably a lot of aggro from media reports.
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Old Jul 26, 2004 | 11:29 pm
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Mrs. bj-21 flew to BFS in May, and on the return flight to YYZ, the check-in counter at BFS asked to see both her passport and the PR card. She wouldn't have been allowed to board the aircraft without her PR card. From what I've heard and read, it's a necessity.

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Old Jul 26, 2004 | 11:42 pm
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IMM1000 documents are no longer valid. Assuming that he will be flying back to Canada, CIC at the port of entry would not be his biggest problem -- the airline will, most likely, simply deny him boarding as he would not be in posession of proper travel documents required for entry into Canada. He would then need to contact the nearest Canadian embassy/consulate to obtain an emergency return permit. In the meantime, he will be stuck in the US.
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 7:03 am
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If you'r in a private car there is no problem crossing the border in either direction. But on any form of "Public" transport you do need that card
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 8:52 am
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Your employee has a couple of choices:
1) Don't go until the PR card is in hand;
2) Fly to a US airport, drive across the border (some rental car companies allow one way into Canada, see thread in Avis forum), and then fly/bus/hitchhike to Ottawa;
3) If he has a US passport my experience has been that the airline doesn't ask for the PR card (once in Atlanta). This is risky because if they do ask your employee is SOL;
4) Fly to the business destination, then fly to a city with a Canadian consulate to get the 1 time waiver and pay the $50 fee.

I agree it's inexcuseable that the process takes 4-6 months to complete. I ran into this problem late last year when I found out by accident I required the PR card. I had to change my travel and drove across the border and then flew from US airports until I received the card.
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 12:20 pm
  #7  
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Originally Posted by LightingGuy
3) If he has a US passport my experience has been that the airline doesn't ask for the PR card (once in Atlanta). This is risky because if they do ask your employee is SOL
This is the way to go if he has a US passport and there is absolutely nothing risky about it. A US passport-holder does not require a visa (or an equivalent, such as a PR card) to enter Canada.

He will have no problem at the check-in, but might face a minor delay at CIC at the port of entry.
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 3:36 pm
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A friend of mine who applied last fall (September, approx) has repeatedly been promised his PR card on such and such a date, only to have the date put back. The most recent date he was assured he could have an appointment to pick up the card was July 7. I'm not certain if he actually received it or not, yet.

However, he has been to the UK twice since Jan 1, and not had any problems returning without a PR card. He's kept the paperwork showing that he's applied. 'Course he was also flying BA, and they assured him they would take care of any re-entry problems for him. (He's also recently applied for Canadian citizenship.)
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 4:05 pm
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Originally Posted by Ken hAAmer
A friend of mine who applied last fall (September, approx) has repeatedly been promised his PR card on such and such a date, only to have the date put back. The most recent date he was assured he could have an appointment to pick up the card was July 7. I'm not certain if he actually received it or not, yet.
You do not mention which passport(s) does your friend hold. If he has a passport from a country, ctizens of which do not require a Canadian visa (such as the UK or the US), he would be able to board based solely on such a passport.

Last edited by KVS; Jul 27, 2004 at 4:20 pm Reason: Edited to clarify that a US/UK passport would suffice for boarding purposes.
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 4:10 pm
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You do not mention which passport(s) does your friend hold. If he has a passport from a country, ctizens of which do not require a Canadian visa (such as the UK or the US), there would really be no issue as a PR card/visa would not be required at all.
On the contrary... he's a landed immigrant, has a home, business, family and yacht in Canada, so he definitely would not be "visiting." He would be returning, or "entering" Canada to stay permanently, and therefore requires the Permanent Resident's card.

(Irish passport.)
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 4:15 pm
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KVS, that is not strictly correct.

Regardless of the passport held a permanent resident must have either the permanent resident document (PR Card) or a travel document in order to use a public conveyance to travel to Canada. A carrier still faces fines if they convey a person who is a permanent resident without the necessary document even if that person could have sought entry as a temporary resident without a TRV.

The best option is to contact CIC for expedited processing. I have had very positive results getting my clients' PR cards issued on an expedited basis where there is a demonstrable need to travel. This assumes, of course, that there is no question about the applicant's ability to meet the 730 day rule, and the application meeting the technical specs (esp. for the photographs).
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 4:34 pm
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Originally Posted by Ken hAAmer
On the contrary... he's a landed immigrant, has a home, business, family and yacht in Canada, so he definitely would not be "visiting." He would be returning, or "entering" Canada to stay permanently, and therefore requires the Permanent Resident's card.
Originally Posted by AC*SE
Regardless of the passport held a permanent resident must have either the permanent resident document (PR Card) or a travel document in order to use a public conveyance to travel to Canada. A carrier still faces fines if they convey a person who is a permanent resident without the necessary document even if that person could have sought entry as a temporary resident without a TRV.
In theory, you are both absolutely correct. However, when it comes to issues relating to multiple citizenship, there is a huge gap between theory and practice. Nevertheless, I have slightly edited my original post to clarify what I meant.

In practice, there are basically two separate issues:
  1. The issue of being able to board the aircraft (i.e. dealing with the check-in agent)
  2. The issue of being able to enter Canada (i.e. dealing with CIC at the port of entry)
It is important to distinguish between these two issues as the airline's agents, unlike CIC at the port-of-entry cannot verify status or citizneship. They have to go by the travel documents presented by the passenger.

Therefore, if someone has a suitable passport, they can present it at the check-in and then explain to the CIC why they don't have a PR card and provide supporting documents to facilitate their entry into the country.
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 4:45 pm
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Thanks for all the answers...

Here's a couple more pieces of the puzzle.

He's a Ukranian Citizen, who holds a ukranian passport so needs a visa in his passport to travel into the USA, even as a permanent resident (landed immigrant / IMM1000 / whatever).

Ironically he's even taken the Citizenship test and passed. He's (hold it - guess what ?) yup, waiting for paperwork.

We did contact the Consular offices abroad, and are attempting to get him back through LAX where he can pick up a TD, but that is an ordeal in itself. They need to interview in the morning, and can't issue a TD until the afternoon (after 2pm).

I'm fankly amazed at this level of silliness.

American Airlines has let me board a plane back to Canada within the last 30 days using an INSPASS clearly stamped "not a visa or passport" at checkin.

YMMV.
Sigh.
Ben.
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Old Jul 27, 2004 | 5:05 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by BritBen
We did contact the Consular offices abroad, and are attempting to get him back through LAX where he can pick up a TD, but that is an ordeal in itself. They need to interview in the morning, and can't issue a TD until the afternoon (after 2pm).
Ordeal? Perhaps you never had to deal with consular-related issues before . This sounds very reasonable under the circumstances.
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Old Jul 28, 2004 | 9:45 am
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Originally Posted by KVS
In theory, you are both absolutely correct. However, when it comes to issues relating to multiple citizenship, there is a huge gap between theory and practice. Nevertheless, I have slightly edited my original post to clarify what I meant.

In practice, there are basically two separate issues:
  1. The issue of being able to board the aircraft (i.e. dealing with the check-in agent)
  2. The issue of being able to enter Canada (i.e. dealing with CIC at the port of entry)
It is important to distinguish between these two issues as the airline's agents, unlike CIC at the port-of-entry cannot verify status or citizneship. They have to go by the travel documents presented by the passenger.

Therefore, if someone has a suitable passport, they can present it at the check-in and then explain to the CIC why they don't have a PR card and provide supporting documents to facilitate their entry into the country.
KVS
In theory you may be correct. But if the airline sees that you are terminating your itinerary in Canada they can request that you show either a valid visa for staying in Canada, or a reserved way back out (air, train, bus, car rental). The airline is on the hook for fines and transportation costs if they bring someone who is refused entry due to invalid documents. Many airlines would see the OP's case as possibly falling under this category and so would refuse boarding.
I agree that many check-in agents won't check for the PR card, most haven't asked for mine. But they might and then the OP's employee would be SOL. That's why I called it a risky manouver. Of course, since he's Ukrainian this point is moot, he requires a visa of some sort anyway.
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