I've done quite a bit of international traveling - including Eastern Bloc and third world countries - and I have never had more difficulty entering a country than I have had entering the USA from Canada. Entering and exiting Russian Federation countries is a total breeze compared to entering the USA at Niagara Falls or at the main crossing on the way back from Vancouver.

We've waited 45 minutes to cross at Niagara Falls and 110 minutes to cross at Vancouver in the past. I've never been searched, but we usually get quizzed pretty good. I've found that US customs officials haven't always been the friendliest or most effecient speed-oriented people around. I'm a male caucasian American citizen, and the thought of returning from Canada gives me chills. I can't even imagine what a non-Caucasian or non-US-citizen must feel when going through this horrible process.

BTW - Entering Canada has never been a problem for us either east or west. Usually a three to five minute wait, a couple of questions about citizenry and purpose in Canada, and that's it. Perhaps I've been lucky... Airport travel to and from Canada has never been a problem for me either direction.

A couple of people have mentioned the main crossing near Vancouver. I too had a very long wait there last summer. When I had to return the next week, I crossed at another point about 10 miles east. It was like a ghost town and took only moments --- both directions!

Bruce

I've often thought that if governments wanted to do things to benefit their citizens they should monitor how long it takes their nationals to enter other countries. And recipricate the line.

So if it takes me as a UK citizen three hours to get into the US at LAX, passengers from the US should be made to wait three hours at our airports - none of this fast lane nonsence.

What fast lane? Fast Track? The LHR T4 one doesn't work on weekends or after 12pm. Obviously you haven't arrived in T1/2 and have to go through the non-E.U. line where even the Swiss are given a thoru=ough going over. The wait here can be very long (thankfully I never have to experience the T3 lineup in the early morning).

[*]"beat the system"tip#16: understand the foreigner lines at Passport Control, discussion: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/000172.html
[*]"beat the system" tip#17: beat the long foreigner lines at passport control, discussion: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/000173.html
[*]"beat the system" tip#19: how to deal with Passport Control Staff, discussion: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/000175.html

Flew to Seattle, rented a van, and drove to Vancouver to visit my uncle a few years ago. My father was with us, and wanted to buy duty free cigarettes for my uncle, so we followed the signs to a duty free shop, paid for the cigarettes, and were directed to drive on and pick up the goods just before crossing the border.

So, we miss the pickup, continue on, and are waved through to Canada, then make a U turn as soon as possible as my father insists on getting the cigarettes, drive back to the border and get waved hrough US immigration. Turnaround, and drive back looking for the pickup point again, and again we miss it! Another series of U-turns, no questions at the borders. 3rd time, I tell my father, this is it, they've have got to think something's fishy if we do this any more. This time we find the right spot, pickup the cigarettes and continue on our way, again getting waved through Canadian immigration/customs.

The only time we get stopped and asked questions is a week later by US immigration, going back to Seattle.

Gee, rilly?


No offense, tc, but many Yanks find the Canadian line of pro-gun control rather naive. Guns don't kill people; people kill people, and no amount of "gun" control will change that.

every (fit to do so) swiss man over 18 has to do his military services in the swiss army.

And as a reserve soldier he afterwards takes his rifle/pistol (with ammunition) home (he may keep it even after leaving the army for the rest of his life).

The crime/killing rate using the personal army weapons in Switzerland is very, very small. I am not aware of a single criminal incident this year 2000 (but unfortunately some times used for suicide, yes).

At the risk of starting a huge debate, let me just note that homogeneous societies like Switzerland and Japan have very low rates of violence, including gun crimes. Heterogeneous societies like the U.S., India, Israel and any number of others have much higher levels of violence. People seem reluctant to hurt others "like them," but much more willing to attack people regarded as different. Access to weapons is just a tiny part of a much larger picture. But none of this is particularly relevant to flyertalk, and I hope that it doesn't generate a huge rant from somebody.

Bruce


[This message has been edited by bdschobel (edited 12-28-2000).]

I'd like to add a word about social order. In Japan, Switzerland and probably Germany, there is a very strong feeling that order is important so people adhere to rules, customs, taboos, etc. In the U.S., there is more of a disregard for these so there is less order. You also see more order in rural areas than urban ones. I don't think crime is linked to weaponery availability but how society views violatins of behavioural code. Many Canadians are denying that they are drifting in attitude towards something more American - I see the changes every day.

Silicon-

You bring up an interesting point about duty-free. In fact, after our Vancouver nightmare, we were given two tips that would have made it much easier to enter the USA from Canada (nice info, but too late for us!):

(1) When driving towards the US border in Canada, look for the truck crossing signs. Trucks are directed off of the main highway to a separate crossing a few miles away. Supposedly this costs about 15 minutes of extra driving, but saves time overall because cars can cross at this point with very little wait.

(2) Sometimes using duty free at the main crossings make it much quicker - even if you only purchase a bottle of water or a candy bar. To make a long story short - the line to enter the USA with a duty-free purchase is usually much faster than the non-duty-free line, simply because of the way the road is laid out and the configuration of the duty-free area (at this location, anyway). The kicker is that it is absolutely illegal to use this line WITHOUT making a purchase - the Canadian officials will make you turn around and go to the back of the "regular" line. Hence the need for a quick purchase of *something*... Again, great idea...wish we would have known .

Samantha: Yes, people kill people. Crazy people with guns. Crazy people with knives are much easier to run away from.

[This message has been edited by RichG (edited 12-28-2000).]

So much for my failed attempt to return this discussion to a travel-related topic

Whenever I cross national borders--usually at airports--I dress up in suit and tie even when travelling with my partner who usually dresses more casual. This has been pretty successful so that even the US agents (I am now a US citizen, former German) have waved us through after only a couple of questions.

My experience with canada other than having to wait in line at times has been great: very polite at immigration with normal questions and no stopping at customs.

I have done a few Canadian crossings for business, a couple for transit to Europe, and one for pleasure. All by air, mostly at YYZ.

For business, I make it clear that I am in Sales Consulting and that I am attending sales planning meetings. I carry no commercial goods for sale. I have not had problems with this line, however colleagues have had interviews with officials about this. "We are having the meeting in Toronto because we want to see the Blue Jays play and my client has a skybox here."

For transit, there has never been a problem (at YYZ).

For pleasure, my boyfriend and I were coming for gay pride in YYZ (1999) and the agent told us that we could use a single form since we were a household. Very progressive (although a customs agent friend in the US tells me that unmarried couples can do this on entry to the US if you want to push the rules), and very nice.

Regarding checks for guns, some fine residents of Texas have spent time in state institutions in Mexico by "forgetting" that Mexico has different laws about transporting firearms than the Lone Star State. I think the Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo was pretty clear about sovereignty south of the Rio Bravo.