Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Americas > Canada
Reload this Page >

Handling of returning Canadian travelers in the COVID era

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Handling of returning Canadian travelers in the COVID era

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 13, 2020, 6:54 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan, Flying Blue
Posts: 662
Handling of returning Canadian travelers in the COVID era

Originally Posted by Badenoch
Canada appears to be toughening the borders.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...rder-1.5645990
I think, and hope, that this is not just a case of "toughening the borders". Here is a quote from the cited link:
Colin Furness, an infection control epidemiologist and associate professor at the University of Toronto, said medical screening for the virus falls outside the job of Canada Border Service Agency officers.

"That's a problem," he said. "We just assume that we can just charge the customs and immigration folks with essentially doing public health work."
I ran into exactly that problem when I returned to Canada (YYZ T3) from a business trip to the US and Mexico at the end of June. Prior to traveling I had consulted with Health Canada and ascertained that I was eligible for an exemption to the quarantine order, based on the work that I am doing. However, the official I spoke with was clear that the decision to grant the exemption was at the discretion of "the immigration officer admitting me to the country". Which would be CBSA, I suppose.

Well, on arrival it quickly became clear that nobody from Health Canada had bothered to inform front-line CBSA officials of their discretionary responsibilities with respect to quarantine. As a holder of a Canadian passport, I was guaranteed to be allowed to enter the country; yet CBSA had no idea what to do with me and had not been informed that it was their responsibility to grant (or not) the exemption to the quarantine order.

After wasting 90 minutes discussing the fine points of inter-agency coordination, I walked out without any clear idea of whether CBSA had granted me an exemption or not. I learned several days later, when Health Canada called me, that they had not.

The whole thing was a cock-up. The CBSA supervisor was sympathetic, and tried (unsuccessfully) to get a Health Canada official to T3 to adjudicate my case. But she told me that it was very difficult for front-line officers who were being bombarded daily with new and different guidance from above. I get that.

So I interpret this as nothing more than an attempt to bring order to the chaos on the front lines. I hope it works. Guess I'll find out soon enough; I am scheduled to re-enter Canada at the end of this month after another extended business trip.
Siempre Viajando is offline  
Old Jul 13, 2020, 7:09 pm
  #2  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan, Flying Blue
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by Badenoch
To no one's surprise the Canada-U.S. border will remain closed to non-essential travel for another month.

https://twitter.com/globeandmail/sta...14572991152129
In my case, Health Canada had verbally agreed that my travel was "essential", establishing the basis for an exemption.

But as the article points out, CBSA officers are not trained (nor were they informed of their responsibility) to determine eligibility for an exemption. Hence the need for more Health Canada officials on the front line.
Siempre Viajando is offline  
Old Jul 14, 2020, 11:04 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
What the Canadian authorities told me was that "essential" can be defined by my employer: if they say that my travel is "essential" to their business, then at the very least I am eligible for an exemption to the two-week quarantine requirement. When I re-enter Canada I plan to carry a letter from my employer stating this.
How did that work out?
sokolov is offline  
Old Jul 14, 2020, 11:09 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,832
Originally Posted by sokolov
How did that work out?
I have a feeling it is going to get a lot tougher for Americans to get in at all by claiming any kind of exemption. Between numerous reports of people saying they are driving straight through to Alaska (and then don’t) and others not obeying quarantine such as these two https://globalnews.ca/news/7174550/f...n-coronavirus/ I suspect any admissions and/or exemptions are going to be scrutinized a lot more closely going forward.
Finkface is offline  
Old Jul 15, 2020, 10:25 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YXU
Programs: AC SE100K, National E/E, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond, MB, Avis PC
Posts: 968
Originally Posted by sokolov
How did that work out?
In my case it sucked. The CBSA officer acknowledged my essential status, however made no record of it. So I'm still receiving calls and e-mails from the health authorities reminding me of the quarantine and threatening me with huge fines and jail time. Once my home rotation is over, I'm going back to the job site and won't return to Canada until the project is finished or this nightmare is over (whichever comes first). Or the place is destroyed by a hurricane.
WildcatYXU is offline  
Old Jul 15, 2020, 4:58 pm
  #6  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan, Flying Blue
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by sokolov
How did that work out?
In June, not very well. The problem was related mainly to the lack of coordination between Health Canada and the CBSA officers on the ground, who were not trained or informed in any way of their responsibilities with respect to determining eligibility for an exemption to the two-week quarantine requirement. I explain this in a bit more detail in an earlier post, above. I'm pretty much in the same boat as WildcatYXU.

I am hopeful that inter-agency coordination will improve and that there will be Health Canada officials available 24/7 at Canadian airports receiving international flights, to help CBSA in making determinations about exemptions to the quarantine requirement. When I return to Canada at the end of this month I plan to arm myself with an appropriate letter from my Canadian employer as well as recent test results demonstrating (knock on wood) negative results for the virus. We'll see how it goes.


It almost seems to me as if the government of Canada is being intentionally vague about their expectations around quarantine requirements for Canadians returning from international business trips. I don't think the term "business traveler" even appears on the website that describes the quarantine requirements and exemptions to it. I suppose that the government doesn't want to encourage business travel by stating that business travelers can obtain an exemption, but they don't want to classify business travelers the same as leisure travelers for fear of blowback from Canadian multinationals whose employees need to travel.

All of this is very frustrating for me, as I have to travel in order to earn money so that I can support my family. And I know that I'm by no means the only Canadian in this situation.
Siempre Viajando is offline  
Old Jul 19, 2020, 11:37 pm
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor BadgeMarriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
Posts: 20,061
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
In June, not very well. The problem was related mainly to the lack of coordination between Health Canada and the CBSA officers on the ground, who were not trained or informed in any way of their responsibilities with respect to determining eligibility for an exemption to the two-week quarantine requirement. I explain this in a bit more detail in an earlier post, above. I'm pretty much in the same boat as WildcatYXU.

I am hopeful that inter-agency coordination will improve and that there will be Health Canada officials available 24/7 at Canadian airports receiving international flights, to help CBSA in making determinations about exemptions to the quarantine requirement. When I return to Canada at the end of this month I plan to arm myself with an appropriate letter from my Canadian employer as well as recent test results demonstrating (knock on wood) negative results for the virus. We'll see how it goes.


It almost seems to me as if the government of Canada is being intentionally vague about their expectations around quarantine requirements for Canadians returning from international business trips. I don't think the term "business traveler" even appears on the website that describes the quarantine requirements and exemptions to it. I suppose that the government doesn't want to encourage business travel by stating that business travelers can obtain an exemption, but they don't want to classify business travelers the same as leisure travelers for fear of blowback from Canadian multinationals whose employees need to travel.

All of this is very frustrating for me, as I have to travel in order to earn money so that I can support my family. And I know that I'm by no means the only Canadian in this situation.
Well hopefully the two parts of the Canadian government actually decide to communicate to enable you and other Canadians to be effective and work going forward. Good luck!

David
DELee is offline  
Old Jul 23, 2020, 7:05 am
  #8  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan, Flying Blue
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by DELee
Well hopefully the two parts of the Canadian government actually decide to communicate to enable you and other Canadians to be effective and work going forward. Good luck!

David
Thanks!

I am returning to Canada (entering via YYZ) next Tuesday. I will be prepared to beg for an exemption, if necessary. We'll see. At the very least I hope to see some evidence of the authorities being better prepared to deal with exemption requests.
Siempre Viajando is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2020, 12:10 pm
  #9  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan, Flying Blue
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
Thanks!

I am returning to Canada (entering via YYZ) next Tuesday. I will be prepared to beg for an exemption, if necessary. We'll see. At the very least I hope to see some evidence of the authorities being better prepared to deal with exemption requests.
Update: I arrived late Tuesday afternoon to YYZ T1, armed with a letter from my employer (a company headquartered in Vancouver) describing my work in general terms and stating that my work is essential to their business although most of it is done outside the country. I also had a certificate from a test (nasal swab, PCR) carried out last Friday stating that at that time, I was negative for the SARS-CoV-2 virus. And I had filled out the Canadian Traveler Contact Information form mentioned in previous posts, marking the "Essential Travel" option.

On the plane I filled out a paper immigration form which I scanned at the kiosk when I arrived along with my passport. I declined to acknowledge the two-week quarantine requirement when the question came up at the kiosk, since I was claiming an exemption from the requirement.

Readers of my earlier posts may recall that, when I tried all this in June, it led to a 90-minute discussion with CBSA officials, who at that time were untrained and uninformed about their discretionary authority to grant the exemption for essential travelers, and their responsibility to make the exemption determination. They did not end up granting me an exemption. Since that time though, I'm happy to report that Health Canada has evidently given training to CBSA officers. The officer who processed me two days ago knew exactly what to do, and ended up approving the exemption.

He didn't give me a free pass, and grilled me for several minutes about what I was doing overseas, how my work was essential and why I do not pose a serious health risk to other Canadians. He seemed particularly focussed on what "essential" work I would be doing in Canada as opposed to outside the country on behalf of a Canadian multinational (this distinction should not matter, as I am a Canadian citizen and cannot be refused entry to the country). I sensed that he decided to grant me the exemption when I told him that I am nearly 60 years old and therefore getting to that vulnerable age, and that I take the issue seriously and take the necessary precautions to protect myself and others by, e.g., wearing a face mask when I am not outdoors and socially separated.

So to other Canadian business travelers I say that there is hope​​​​​​ to avoid the quarantine requirement upon returning home. A letter from your employer or client mentioning the essential nature of your work and recent test certificate demonstrating no active infection will certainly help, as will (and I guess this goes without saying) a non-confrontational attitude and demonstration of responsible behaviour with respect to COVID19.
Siempre Viajando is offline  
Old Aug 3, 2020, 11:08 am
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
So to other Canadian business travelers I say that there is hope​​​​​​ to avoid the quarantine requirement upon returning home.
I know this is going to be unpopular on a forum full of people who fly for work - but this IMHO is bullcrap.
Of course the business one works for deems your work trip "essential" - to their ability to make money, but counters everything the border closure is supposed to achieve - import of covid.People who fly for work, and especially people who meet with others while doing said work, are much higher risk than for example someone who leaves the country and stays at their US cottage by themselves, or goes to the Caribbean to sail their boat.
rankourabu is offline  
Old Aug 3, 2020, 11:43 am
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan, Flying Blue
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by rankourabu
I know this is going to be unpopular on a forum full of people who fly for work - but this IMHO is bullcrap.
Of course the business one works for deems your work trip "essential" - to their ability to make money, but counters everything the border closure is supposed to achieve - import of covid.People who fly for work, and especially people who meet with others while doing said work, are much higher risk than for example someone who leaves the country and stays at their US cottage by themselves, or goes to the Caribbean to sail their boat.
In my case it's not "bullcrap". I work to support my family and traveling is part of my work.

More generally, the idea that Canada can somehow shut itself off from the rest of the world until the pandemic passes is ludicrous. That could be years, a period during which some business travel is necessary. If the company I work for isn't the entity to declare my travel "essential" then what entity would be? Health Canada, or the CBSA? I think not!

As for the statement that by flying and meeting with others outside the country I am a "much higher" risk than others who go to their US cottage or sailing in their boat, how about quantifying that risk for us? State your assumptions and provide some data to back up your otherwise baseless assertion.

I long since ceased being invincibly young and I am well aware that I run a greater chance of infection than if I were to do nothing more than sit at home. But that is not an option for me. So I travel, and I take practical risk management measures (social distancing, use of a face mask, regular hand-washing and regular PCR tests) as I go. The risks are not negligible but they can be managed. The Canadian government recognizes these realities of life and has made what I think are suitable arrangements for restricting international travel without completely throttling the business sector on which our economy depends.
Siempre Viajando is offline  
Old Aug 3, 2020, 12:03 pm
  #12  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
In my case it's not "bullcrap". I work to support my family and traveling is part of my work.

More generally, the idea that Canada can somehow shut itself off from the rest of the world until the pandemic passes is ludicrous. That could be years, a period during which some business travel is necessary. If the company I work for isn't the entity to declare my travel "essential" then what entity would be? Health Canada, or the CBSA? I think not!

As for the statement that by flying and meeting with others outside the country I am a "much higher" risk than others who go to their US cottage or sailing in their boat, how about quantifying that risk for us? State your assumptions and provide some data to back up your otherwise baseless assertion.

I long since ceased being invincibly young and I am well aware that I run a greater chance of infection than if I were to do nothing more than sit at home. But that is not an option for me. So I travel, and I take practical risk management measures (social distancing, use of a face mask, regular hand-washing and regular PCR tests) as I go. The risks are not negligible but they can be managed. The Canadian government recognizes these realities of life and has made what I think are suitable arrangements for restricting international travel without completely throttling the business sector on which our economy depends.
Cry me a river. There are millions of Canadians who have to feed their families and many are struggling because of the virus.

Whether your business is "essential" is a determination that should be made by government and health authorities. What is more essential is that Canadians are not infected by business travelers who are gaming the system.
Badenoch is offline  
Old Aug 3, 2020, 12:51 pm
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
In my case it's not "bullcrap". I work to support my family and traveling is part of my work.
If the company I work for isn't the entity to declare my travel "essential" then what entity would be? Health Canada, or the CBSA? I think not!.

Thats exactly who should be determining if your company is essential, just like they've done with businesses who had to shut down, and the millions of Candiands who lost their job because of it. Your job is not more important than those.


I could almost understand if the flying was done to support one's own business, but to do this for someone else's profits.....
rankourabu is offline  
Old Aug 3, 2020, 1:09 pm
  #14  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
What is essential to an individual or a company, is not necessarily essential in the meaning of the wording.
LondonElite is offline  
Old Aug 3, 2020, 3:21 pm
  #15  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan, Flying Blue
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by rankourabu
Thats exactly who should be determining if your company is essential, just like they've done with businesses who had to shut down, and the millions of Candiands who lost their job because of it. Your job is not more important than those.


I could almost understand if the flying was done to support one's own business, but to do this for someone else's profits.....
In effect it is my own business. I am an independent consultant working on assignment, doing this to support my family. It's not that I'm insensitive to the legions of Canadians who have lost their jobs due to the pandemic; quite the opposite in fact. Because I am an independent consultant I work at the vagaries of the market, and as we all know the market has had its ups and downs these last few months.

But look, if the Canadian government felt that I posed an unacceptable risk to Canadians by doing what I am doing, then they would not have granted me an exemption to the quarantine requirement. Let's be clear here: I am not "gaming" the system in any way. I am acting responsibly within it, and I successfully demonstrated to the CBSA officer who admitted me at YYZ, that I do not pose a significant risk to public health when I return to Canada. Had he decided otherwise, then I would be quarantined. So you see, even though the company employing me provided a letter stating that my work is essential to their business, it's still up to the Canadian government to agree or disagree that I warrant an exemption. And they decided that I am exempt. You can complain about the system being too lax if you want, but don't tell me that I'm crying rivers and gaming systems because that's not what is going on here.

The pandemic isn't going to stop the world; not even the black death did that, after killing over one third of Europeans in the mid-fourteenth century. Life goes on, and international business travel will continue albeit it at a lower pace. Canada can't, and shouldn't, isolate itself completely from the world at large. The Canadian government knows this and my view is that they have arrived at a system for controlling international travel that recognizes the need for some travel to continue but also protects the health and welfare of Canadians by mitigating the risks associated with C19. Well done I say, especially when you compare it to what is going on south of the border.
Siempre Viajando is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.