Inadmissibility to Canada due to old DUI's
Feb 23, 2018, 1:28 pm
#46
Join Date: Feb 2007
Programs: AA
Posts: 21
FWIW-In Wisconsin a first OWI/DWI is a civil traffic offense, not criminal. I believe that WI is the only state where this is true. Additionally, OWI/DWI offense underage of 17 have limited disclosures.
https://www.wisbar.org/newspublicati...ArticleID=2045
http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/sa...th-penchrt.pdf
I have no idea if this affects your chances of admission to Canada or not....
https://www.wisbar.org/newspublicati...ArticleID=2045
http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/sa...th-penchrt.pdf
I have no idea if this affects your chances of admission to Canada or not....
Feb 23, 2018, 5:11 pm
#47
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: GIG - YYC - SVO
Programs: Lost it all and don't care
Posts: 945
Doesn't matter what they classify it as in the US.
It's what the Canadian authorities consider it as being equal to according to our laws, as to how they treat it. Up here it is considered a felony equivalent.
It's what the Canadian authorities consider it as being equal to according to our laws, as to how they treat it. Up here it is considered a felony equivalent.
Last edited by KDS777; Feb 24, 2018 at 9:58 am
Feb 23, 2018, 8:02 pm
#48
Join Date: May 2012
Location: YOW
Programs: UA*1K, Marriott Titanium (LTP), Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,665
Right, but isn’t the issue that DUI is criminal in Canada but not the US? In that case, would there be an arrest or criminal conviction? And if not, how would it enter a database that CBSA could access by scanning the passport?
Having never driven drunk, let alone been ticketed or convicted of DWI, I’m blissfully ignorant of the process....
Having never driven drunk, let alone been ticketed or convicted of DWI, I’m blissfully ignorant of the process....
The biggest thing here, is don't lie or pretend you didn't know. That just makes it much worse in the end, instead of the potential of being just turned around.
Feb 25, 2018, 10:27 am
#49
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
DUI is considered a criminal offence in Canada and therefore CBSA will treat this as a criminal conviction . As I understand, persons with a criminal conviction will most likely be denied entry into Canada and be held/returned. Believe former criminals have a potential recourse by applying for visa/waiver with the Canadian embassy beforehand.
US and Canada share databases with one another.
US and Canada share databases with one another.
Last edited by global happy traveller; Feb 25, 2018 at 10:35 am
Feb 25, 2018, 4:17 pm
#50
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
DUI is considered a criminal offence in Canada and therefore CBSA will treat this as a criminal conviction . As I understand, persons with a criminal conviction will most likely be denied entry into Canada and be held/returned. Believe former criminals have a potential recourse by applying for visa/waiver with the Canadian embassy beforehand.
US and Canada share databases with one another.
US and Canada share databases with one another.
Right. My question is does DUI routinely get entered into databases in the US because it’s not considered a criminal offense in the US?
Feb 25, 2018, 4:20 pm
#51
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: GIG - YYC - SVO
Programs: Lost it all and don't care
Posts: 945
Yes of course. That's why people coming to Canada get tripped up when they lie.
DUI is a criminal offence in the majority of the US, it's just not a felony offence in most states, whereas in Canada it is considered one, although we use the word "indictable" rather than felony up here. And, this problem does not affect just people with DUI's in the US, but other criminal charges as well.
This is where some people get confused. You have two types of criminal offences here in Canada, and using our terminology, they are "summary or indictable" offences, with summary being the lesser of the two. In the US they also do the same, depending on the state, but DUI's are sometimes not categorized by the more serious classification, which is the US term known as "felony" offence, and our's is "indictable".
That is why at the border people think it's not a big deal sometimes, but the CBSA officers must compare the actual "offence itself" (not what the US state consider's it as) to see where it lies within our laws, in other words, how it would be prosecuted here, and that's how you get turned back as we don't let felony offenders in.
PS......I'm not a lawyer, but I have watched about 50 episodes of "Border Security" and seen lots of folks routinely kicked back for this on TV, as well as others allowed into Canada for summary level US criminal convictions, that would not merit actual criminal charges here in Canada. The company I worked for had a US office and some people could not come to our corporate head office in Canada because of this. I also dated a CBSA officer for a while......so this is anecdotal and should be taken as such, but it's pretty accurate.
DUI is a criminal offence in the majority of the US, it's just not a felony offence in most states, whereas in Canada it is considered one, although we use the word "indictable" rather than felony up here. And, this problem does not affect just people with DUI's in the US, but other criminal charges as well.
This is where some people get confused. You have two types of criminal offences here in Canada, and using our terminology, they are "summary or indictable" offences, with summary being the lesser of the two. In the US they also do the same, depending on the state, but DUI's are sometimes not categorized by the more serious classification, which is the US term known as "felony" offence, and our's is "indictable".
That is why at the border people think it's not a big deal sometimes, but the CBSA officers must compare the actual "offence itself" (not what the US state consider's it as) to see where it lies within our laws, in other words, how it would be prosecuted here, and that's how you get turned back as we don't let felony offenders in.
PS......I'm not a lawyer, but I have watched about 50 episodes of "Border Security" and seen lots of folks routinely kicked back for this on TV, as well as others allowed into Canada for summary level US criminal convictions, that would not merit actual criminal charges here in Canada. The company I worked for had a US office and some people could not come to our corporate head office in Canada because of this. I also dated a CBSA officer for a while......so this is anecdotal and should be taken as such, but it's pretty accurate.
Last edited by KDS777; Feb 26, 2018 at 5:58 am
Feb 26, 2018, 9:01 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
I think if the person wasn't arrested (i.e. moving violation etc) then it wont be entered into database and shared. Though I suspect they might have access to DMV records.
However, if the person was "arrested" not convicted/discharged, then it gets entered into the database, and poses an issue in the future.
Now for those states where it starts off with traffic violation before escalating to a more serious criminal DUI issue, I think the matter is at mercy of the local PD/state.
Feb 27, 2018, 3:46 am
#53
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: AAdvantage, Skymiles
Posts: 156
Dear OP:
First off, the only way to end up in serious trouble from here on out is to lie. If you tell the truth, the worst that can happen is you're out some time and money. Second off, I am not an attorney.
I would contact an immigration attorney. Both in my career and in my trip to Canada last year (1 DWI, 9 years old, pre-trial diversion completed), things involving any legal matter are not black and white. With a 30 minute phone call with an attorney I was able to resolve my admissibility without paying a dime. For a fee they may be able to provide a "letter of opinion" that you can show to secondary immigration pleading for your admissibility.
For instance, there is a chance that if your first DWI case really was 2 beers at 19 years old, and you blew a 0.03% in 2001, you are in violation of the laws of your state but not of Canada (due to the lower drinking age). So, you have an argument that you weren't in violation of a Canadian law. So now, for Canadian purposes you have 1 DWI that is 15 years old and that can now be considered for "deemed rehabilitation" due to being over 10 years old. Now, the burden of proof is on you, and it's up to the mercy of the immigration officer, but you can see the path that a good lawyer can walk you through. If you blew a 0.09% or refused to blow you are out of luck on this path.
Also, arrest, dismissed, conviction, acquitted, expunged, etc... all have different legal meanings. So, was the end result of both cases CONVICTION?, or was it something else? Immigration officials will key on two things: (1) An arrest with no final disposition, (2) Convictions. So, were you not offered a pre-trial diversion on either of those cases?
Be forewarned: The NCIC may be out of date, so it may show an arrest with no final disposition even if you've successfully done what it takes to get the conviction off of your record. Again, the burden of proof is on you. This also means there's a chance the NCIC doesn't have any info on you....but you're relying on luck then.
You don't have time to get data from all of the relevant parties (Especially the FBI/NCIC which is what counts). But you can get your local court data from where you were prosecuted, feed this info to an immigration attorney and see what happens.
(Referencing the newer posts in my consolidated info thread). Also, it doesn't appear that the link between your passport and criminal history at primary inspection is instant (not 100% sure on this one anymore). I found an article from 2013 stating what they had access to (limited access to NCIC at primary, full access at secondary due to the 3-8 minutes per search to dig into that database), but in 2016 they made a change. But, in the article describing the change it talks primarily about now "finally" being able to catch active warrants at primary inspections. I crossed in 2017 and was not taken to secondary, and the whole process for (2) people crossing by land, took about 2 minutes.
My best guess (and it's a guess), they still have to take several steps to dig into the NCIC at primary to dig into your past, and are not likely to do that unless something else makes them suspicious, at that point they're more likely to send you to secondary. I do know they will not ask about criminal history in front of anybody else. If I had to guess, >90% chance you make it through primary no problem. If you get pulled into secondary, and you are 100% honest and have an attorney's note describing why you should be admissible on hand (1 underage DUI not in violation of Canadian law, 1 DUI >10 years old eligible for deemed rehabilitation), there's a decent chance you'd make it through there. But nothing is guaranteed.
First off, the only way to end up in serious trouble from here on out is to lie. If you tell the truth, the worst that can happen is you're out some time and money. Second off, I am not an attorney.
I would contact an immigration attorney. Both in my career and in my trip to Canada last year (1 DWI, 9 years old, pre-trial diversion completed), things involving any legal matter are not black and white. With a 30 minute phone call with an attorney I was able to resolve my admissibility without paying a dime. For a fee they may be able to provide a "letter of opinion" that you can show to secondary immigration pleading for your admissibility.
For instance, there is a chance that if your first DWI case really was 2 beers at 19 years old, and you blew a 0.03% in 2001, you are in violation of the laws of your state but not of Canada (due to the lower drinking age). So, you have an argument that you weren't in violation of a Canadian law. So now, for Canadian purposes you have 1 DWI that is 15 years old and that can now be considered for "deemed rehabilitation" due to being over 10 years old. Now, the burden of proof is on you, and it's up to the mercy of the immigration officer, but you can see the path that a good lawyer can walk you through. If you blew a 0.09% or refused to blow you are out of luck on this path.
Also, arrest, dismissed, conviction, acquitted, expunged, etc... all have different legal meanings. So, was the end result of both cases CONVICTION?, or was it something else? Immigration officials will key on two things: (1) An arrest with no final disposition, (2) Convictions. So, were you not offered a pre-trial diversion on either of those cases?
Be forewarned: The NCIC may be out of date, so it may show an arrest with no final disposition even if you've successfully done what it takes to get the conviction off of your record. Again, the burden of proof is on you. This also means there's a chance the NCIC doesn't have any info on you....but you're relying on luck then.
You don't have time to get data from all of the relevant parties (Especially the FBI/NCIC which is what counts). But you can get your local court data from where you were prosecuted, feed this info to an immigration attorney and see what happens.
(Referencing the newer posts in my consolidated info thread). Also, it doesn't appear that the link between your passport and criminal history at primary inspection is instant (not 100% sure on this one anymore). I found an article from 2013 stating what they had access to (limited access to NCIC at primary, full access at secondary due to the 3-8 minutes per search to dig into that database), but in 2016 they made a change. But, in the article describing the change it talks primarily about now "finally" being able to catch active warrants at primary inspections. I crossed in 2017 and was not taken to secondary, and the whole process for (2) people crossing by land, took about 2 minutes.
My best guess (and it's a guess), they still have to take several steps to dig into the NCIC at primary to dig into your past, and are not likely to do that unless something else makes them suspicious, at that point they're more likely to send you to secondary. I do know they will not ask about criminal history in front of anybody else. If I had to guess, >90% chance you make it through primary no problem. If you get pulled into secondary, and you are 100% honest and have an attorney's note describing why you should be admissible on hand (1 underage DUI not in violation of Canadian law, 1 DUI >10 years old eligible for deemed rehabilitation), there's a decent chance you'd make it through there. But nothing is guaranteed.
Jul 6, 2018, 4:39 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3
I applied for a TRP from inside Canada last year, I want to share my timeline and if anyone else in a similar situation can share theirs I'd love to hear it, I'm at the stage where I'm hoping for a decision every day but it's just radio silence.
I have a DUI / DWI from another country, sentence was completed 3 years ago so can't go for criminal rehabilitation. I have a Canadian employer who is wants to keep me employed in a high skilled job and is supporting my application, so that helps it carry more weight.
I applied for a TRP by paper application last November. In March I was asked for passport photos, which means that somebody had started to look/review my application by then. I haven't had any communication since.
According to the CIC websites processing times they are currently processing applications submitted in February 2018. So kinda wondering what is happening with my application.
Has anyone else applied for a TRP recently (in the last year or 2) who can share their wait time for a response?
I have a DUI / DWI from another country, sentence was completed 3 years ago so can't go for criminal rehabilitation. I have a Canadian employer who is wants to keep me employed in a high skilled job and is supporting my application, so that helps it carry more weight.
I applied for a TRP by paper application last November. In March I was asked for passport photos, which means that somebody had started to look/review my application by then. I haven't had any communication since.
According to the CIC websites processing times they are currently processing applications submitted in February 2018. So kinda wondering what is happening with my application.
Has anyone else applied for a TRP recently (in the last year or 2) who can share their wait time for a response?