EmailKid

And it's OK to disagree as long as you don't attack the poster but disagree with the idea.

GUWonder

Placing for sale to generate a loss may be commercial too, and that's what I consider to be "dumping" when it's intended to grab market share. But good luck getting some national customs officials within the EU to collect import duty on a personal use item of sub-€430 value in the form of branded electronics that is being imported and then may be re-sold -- whether for a profit or for a loss, who knows. To have a commercial character, they may expect a quantity of commercial scale and not attribute that to a singular electronics good valued at well under €400.

When the import is occasional -- as in bringing in a new, single item on a personal trip for someone you know -- and of a permitted electronics good with a value of well less than €400, good luck trying to pay import duty for it when entering a EU country.

And about resale/use tax, if the annual sales revenue of the individual person is below some amount (as determined at the national level), then resale taxes may be zero.

Adam1222

I think there is a distinction between "customs officials won't catch you" and "it's legal." We of course have no idea how frequently the poster imported goods for resale. But more importantly, I think it's important that people are not misled to think that buying electronics in county X in order to resell in country Y is somehow exempt from duties. It is not.

Thankfully, we don't have to rely on your speculation as to what EU customs law considers to be commercial character, as the helpful EU defines it as follows:

"In ths context, imports are regarded as having no commercial character if they take place occasionally and consist of goods for the personal or family use of the travellers, or of goods intended as presents."

Note the conjunctive and. Even a singular import for resale has a commercial character. And there is not a monetary value threshold.

Bottom line: people should educate themselves as to what the law actually is before either importing goods for resale, opining on what the law may be, or accusing fellow FTers of not knowing what they are talking about.

GUWonder

I know there is a distinction between "customs officials won't catch you" -- and yet they sometimes do catch some -- and "it's legal." Import without paying duty is legally sometimes possible in the EU even when it comes to importing a permitted electronics good solely for the purpose of re-sale on an open market.

And I wasn't speculating about "import and resale duties", to use your phrase inclusive of the conjunctive and. My use of the word "occasional" in relation to import (done prior to your post) was deliberate, and I was ahead of the curb in my use of that which you came to rely upon later in your response. So who's speculating about the nature of knowledge held?

With regard to import duties, the customs authorities may not have wanted any payment. In other words, there legally may be zero customs duties paid.

With regard to "resale" tax, there may be a monetary value threshold before that tax may come due from an individual. In other words, there legally may be zero "resale" taxes due.

As you don't know that FTer's exact circumstances, a lot of the assumption about that FTer is just speculation that may seem to be but an attempt to disparage character. Quite distinct from having a question about the knowledge level about the specific circumstances applicable for that FTer in this matter.

Bottom line: people should educate themselves as to what all the applicable laws and circumstances actually are for an individual FTer -- if they don't want to engage in speculating (on the appllcable laws and circumstances) and implying that violations occurred when there may have been no violations. Disparaging or otherwise assuming the worst about the situation of a fellow FTer, in the absence of knowing all the facts of the circumstances about the import and resale, really doesn't do anyone any good.

DaveBlaine

This thread delivers!

fbruno

I didn't even wrote that I imported it into Belgium with the intention to resell it.

Maybe I bought it for myself or as a present for my GF, but changed my mind after coming home (e.g. the wrong model/color, ...), and placed it on an online marketplace afterwards?
It was 1 watch, and indeed far below the duty free allowance

If I really had commercial intentions, I should have imported 5 watches. Almost zero chance that the customs would have controlled me (HBO), and even if, it would still have been profitable.
it's Belgium/Europe after all, so no huge fines!

Adam1222

I didn't disparage anyone. Nor did I say the poster violated the law. I asked a question and you accused me of being ignorant. I then responded to your taunt that I didn't know what the relevant law was by pointing to the law. You then offered your guess as to what the law might mean. I responded by again pointing to the relevant law- which directly contradicted what you thought it "may" be At no point did I opine on the specifics of the posters situation, but I did point out you were wrong as to the law- which remains accurate.

Please don't accuse me of saying things I didn't in your attempt to recover from your incorrect statement about what the law "may" be. Your pivoting to avoid admitting you were completely wrong is inappropriate.

But I'm glad you now appear to be admitting that indeed importing small amounts of goods with the intent to resell for a profit may indeed generate duties and/or taxes, depending on a multitude of circumstances, and that no one should assume that such conduct has no tax consequences. Generally, I follow the protocol of advising people that their conduct may have legal consequences (a yellow light) rather than suggesting its completely okay (a green light) without the knowledge to back it up solely to get into an argument on FT.

GUWonder

The following borrowed words

are a good response to the above? Doesn't matter.

You asked about paying "customs and resale duties". Unless you previously knew the precise personal circumstances applicable to the FTer who brought in the watch, how can you be aware of the applicable duty free import allowance? The answer to that question gets back to the nature of the relevance of the question you asked, a question to which I responded with a question, not a taunt, and statements about facts based in the laws applicable in these parts.

Glad to hear that talk.

You talked about customs and resale duties. Unless you know more about the FTer's single watch import than that FTer so as to legally contradict the FTer when it comes to:

applicable laws and implemented practice of customs collection; and

applicable law for sales tax collection,

this is all like tilting at windmills.

It's commonly the case that legally nothing is paid in customs and resale taxes for a single permitted electronics purchase with a value of well less than €400 brought into the EU by an ordinary, EU-residing passenger who has been outside of Europe/EU for at least the required period of time. Whether or not with the intent to dump it on the local market. Legally at that.

I'll leave it at that.

Adam1222

Since that doesnt really respond to what I said, I'll take that as an acknowledgement that I didn't "disparage" anyone or say anyone violated the law. Apology accepted. Have a blessed day.

midoben

whaat! 50k just for importing things?!! woww

daKav

I once took 3 big bars of Toblerone to a friend in India and I made enough profit for 3 coffees.

guarani

Hi, i been looking forever to buy a product that cost cheap in one country and i could sell expensive in an other to make some profit but is not easy, just out of curiosity do you sell a product from the US or Europe and transport to Japan or you sell a service to people in Japan, thank you for your time.

YVR Cockroach

Manufacturers (or these days, more like brand-name marketers) have long mispriced goods in various countries, or using differential pricing (allowing for taxes).

Back some 2 decades ago, Levis jeans were selling for multiple times more in Europe (list price in Europe) than in the U.S. as Levi Strauss priced them as luxury goods in one and as working person's wear in the other. I remember going to a jean shop in eastern Pennsylvania (FWIW depressed economy, prime Trump country these days) where Levis jeans were being sold cheap (starting from $15 - what level I don't remember as don't buy/know about Levis). I do remember newspapers reporting that jeans sales were being rationed in NYC to prevent people buying them there are bringing to Europe to resell. I understand Levi Strauss is still using this pricing strategy.

I see a NY Times article from 2001 about Levi Strauss winning a European court case to keep Tesco from selling it grey market products in Europe.

More recently, Louis Vuitton was selling its goods in France for much less than in east Asia. That's why you see (or used to) a line up of Asians outside the LV shop on the Champs Elysée in Paris and product rationing. My partner had a colleague whose sister was an FA for an airline. They'd jumpseat from North America to Asia to Paris, buy a whack load of stuff, fly back to Asia to resell (nameless locality with no/low import and sales taxes), before flying home to North America.

Another absurdity in the past was a Japanese retailer/distributor bringing Coca Cola from the U.S. to resell in Japan as it was that much cheaper even factoring in transportation.

trooper

Seriously?

So how do you feel about intellectual property theft? is that OK too?

If not... whats the difference?

WorldLux

AFAIK, the reason why especially Chinese spend fortunes in Europe on luxury goods is that imported luxury goods are heavily taxed in China. I've seen them in outlets storm Prada, Gucci, etc..., buying everything and then heading to the Samsonite store in the outlet, put all the shopping in there and leave again.