mad_rich

Trouble is, it doesn't just have to be extraordinary circumstances, but also ones 'which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken'.

What reasonable measure could BA have taken on this occasion? Surely not stationing crew at outstations on the offchance. That would be costly. And rash.

On the second point - right to rerouting/ reimbursement - no argument from me there. BA are obliged to offer 're-routing to your final destination as soon as possible or, if you agree, at a later date'. Of course the reg doesn't go on to qualify 'as soon as possible' (on BA? Oneworld? Any carrier? Original class & bucket? Any class? Private jet?).

OP's friend can reasonably be peeved if he asked to be endorsed on the next flight on any airline and was refused.

Jumbodriver

The only sickness downroute that would cause a flight cancellation is one affecting a pilot. That coupled with the fact that many stations have pilots that may be willing to shorten their slip in these circumstances (anywhere with 2 nights or multiple slips like JFK) means that BA cancelled less than 5 flights last year for crew sickness. Looks like extraordinairy circs to me.

graraps

It would be equally costly and rash as stationing parts at outstations on the offchance.

Again, what I've been saying is that compensation is due not because they could have prevented the flight from being cancelled (which they theoretically could, but we are in agreement that it would obviously be a massive expense and/or logistical challenge), but because no real same-day alternatives were offered.

koksy

How about cancelling the earlier flight that they changed my friend to with 2 hrs notice, and putting the captain from that flight on the later flight? Or even delaying the earlier flight to the time of the cancelled flight? That way everybody would have probably got home.

graraps

How many flights did they cancel due to missing parts?

Greenpen

Three years ago (approx) we were in Tobago and the Virgin flight home was cancelled because of "severe technical problems". The co-pilot who was due to take over at Tobago had committed suicide in his hotel bedroom. We were given an extra day in our resort hotel and 50,000 Virgin miles as compensation (flying Upper Class). I thought that was more than fair as pilot suicide would be a very unforseen circumstance. The plane left 24 hours later. My holiday insurance paid up too, �70 each I think.

sunrisegirl

graraps - as you seem to think it's inexcusable for BA not to have a spare crew sitting around in every destination they fly to, are you prepared to pay quite considerably increased fares to allow BA to recruit more Captains so this can happen?

I'm not and I'm sure the vast majority of passengers with BA feel the same - just so that 5 flights per year (as my Jumbodriver's post of 5 cases of sickness per year) can be flown out on time.

Please - be realistic.

sunrisegirl

Perhaps not meant in the way this has come out, but how sad that people care more about what compensation they got than any thoughts of how desperate a human being had become to take their own life. Sad, sad, sad.

We truly have become a money grabbing nation now.

hammythehammer

I'd read your 'precedent' carefully.
One huge difference between sick crew and aircraft parts is that the airline don't 'maintain' each member of staff. A fault (sickness/injury) with crew can be certified independently by a doctor. The problem with a part should maybe have been picked up on the servicing schedule.

Your 'precedent' mentions cost ....the bottom line would be that you would have to have crew replacements at every outstation in the World. The cost IMHO would bankrupt every long haul airline flying.

mad_rich

I'm no aircraft engineer, but no it wouldn't. Parts fit any aircraft of the type and don't need putting up in hotels.

Are you talking about the standard €600 compo? That's not how it works. You don't get it purely for your delay (more's the pity for the poor folks who are 'delayed' 24 hours and get nothing) but for the cancellation itself. If the cancellation was not extraordinary enough, it doesn't matter how much they inconvenience you - you ain't getting jack [Edit: except, of course, your right to care]. (Conversely, someone who is delayed by 61 minutes after a CDG flight is cancelled, upgraded to CE and offered taxi fares at either end is still eligible for compensation.)

The OP's friend could of course have bought a walkup fare on AA and later asked BA to cover it 'because you should have offered me re-routing', but that would be messy.

Now there's an idea. Makes sense to me. Maybe an hours thing? (Plus there would likely be compensation issues for the pax on the previous flight: "You did what? You cancelled/ delayed MY flight so we could go to the rescue of later passengers? I want my money back." Extraordinary circumstances. It all starts again.)

BingBongBoy

Could not agree more...

graraps

Do I?

Perhaps you may want to re-read post #18.

Jenbel

That would have been a commercial decision, since they took the decision to cancel, not that they were forced to cancel, which meant that BA would have had to offer EU compensation to everyone on board the earlier flight.

garaps - failure to abide by the articles of the EU comp rule does not automatically give any passenger the right to EU comp - they can't claim it as a type of fine! If an airline has failed to follow the EU rules on re-routes, the only recourse is to complain to the regulating body about the breach, who would then investigate and theoretically punish the offending airline. You may be able to seek compensation from the courts if you could show a material loss, but that is not the same as EU comp.

graraps

But they need storage, have "use by" dates, and so on. Lots of parallels with crew.


This is correct. However, the passenger in the OP didn't even get anything under right-to-care!

hammythehammer

No , it's totally different. The spare parts are a known fixed cost and hold their value in most cases and will be probably utilised towards the end of their life anyway. At worst you sell them on....with the caveat that they may be available to be sourced locally anyway.
Going on Jumbodrivers figures it may be that there's never been a flight cancelled from Tokyo for sickness ....so you've paid a Captains salary for the last ten years so someone can sit in NRT twiddling their thumbs. .....ridiculous.