[17 Jan 2008] BA38 lands short of the runway
Jan 19, 2008, 4:43 am
#647
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 1,442
It's disappointing that a so-called "moderator" would also partake in such personal attacks. Why, because I have a different viewpoint? Because I am asking obvious questions that no one else on this board dares to, for fear of being attacked and ostracized by the shills and those employed by BA on this board? Hundreds of people's lives were put at peril, and thankfully, no died despite there being one victim with serious injuries. While the pilots should be rightfully commended for a job well-done, I do not think think that should absolve any responsibility from BA. Until the investigation is finished, it's unreasonable to not take into consideration the possibility of faulty maintenance, and to personally attack me because I raise these points is naive and shameful, particularly coming from a "moderator".
It is even more disappointing to read someone who is clearly new to this board making remarks about someone who has a clear track record of being involved in the safety design and running of airports. She was brought to this Forum by the person who is involved in this investigation. With great respect, the way that your post read it did not sound that you were expressing an opinion you sounded as though you were expressing a known fact. Having had the privelege of meetng here - she simply is not the sort to attack personally. I would point out that she is not a "moderator" - she is a Moderator - and she will probably moderate me when she reads this!
As several have said here - let us wait and see what the investigation reveals rather than speculate or start laying blame on anyone or thing. I think that was what touched the nerve. I am sorry to say this but your first (?) post was on the value of the stock?? Hello?? It sounds as though you have an axe to grind with BA which started long before this incident. Maybe you haven't but that is the way it reads. You have every right to express opinions but do not be peeved if they are out of touch with the overall sentiment of the Forum. Public moods can swing either way and only the investigation will prove otherwise. All those crew members were trained by British Airways and clearly they were trained well.
Sometimes a time factor comes into play and maybe with time everything you say will be proved correct. However when a post about the value of the stock minutes after an incident of this kind which was pracitcally on a par with a "I am was on Flight 38 what compensation am I entitled to?" did not start matters well. I am sorry that you have been attacked - I think that your "opinions" should have been ignored.
I would also add that one has to take responsibility when you write things that other may take as proved fact. Not everyone will wade through all these pages to see the full thread and might take this for gospel. I lurked here for a good year before I started to post and got what I would call a taste for the Board. I have visited all sorts of Forums recently for various reasons and they have the stalwarts - apologists they are usually called. For my part I believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty and all British Airways are guilty of so far is being an organisation where people all escaped a wrecked airliner. Now you will excuse me - my partner and I am going up to Surbiton as we have a friend who we want to see when she gets in. I am sure that the good wishes of the whole board are with her.
Jan 19, 2008, 5:01 am
#648
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Just as a point of information, I actually introduced spottie to FT, not the other way around (check the join dates 
) but thanks for the kind words 
) but thanks for the kind words
Jan 19, 2008, 5:18 am
#650
Ambassador: Oneworld Alliance
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Many passengers cannot differentiate BA from the other providers in the "value chain" in their travel experience (BAA in particular). You only have to look at the number of complaints about security and so forth that are posted. I tend to believe what adrianjc says about what happened. It must be tough being criticised when you have done a good job.
There would be no story for a journalist if it was only "BA done great" - they want problems and complaints. Perhaps they are responding to what their customers expect; understandable from the Mail but pitiful from the BBC. (Would they have been so keen to find fault if it was a airline other than BA or one of the US mainline carriers, when I bet they would have had a field day).
A friend of mine with AA worked with the families in the aftermath of the Jamaica Bay disaster. I know what a harrowing job that was - let us hope adrianjc and colleagues never have to deal with anything like that.
Last edited by squeeler; Jan 19, 2008 at 5:19 am Reason: spelling - as ever
Jan 19, 2008, 5:56 am
#651
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Jan 19, 2008, 6:03 am
#652
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
Oh dear
Read the M-I-L's Daily Hate this morning 
Two things, their journalist claimed:
"pilot used wing flaps to help lift plane over the 15ft southern perimeter fence" and "the flaps on the wing were deployed allowing it to scrape over the perimeter fence"
"Last night it emerged Mrs Burkill had contacted publicist Max Clifford with plans to sell her husbands story. The publicist was understood to be in negotiations with Sunday newspapers"
The first comments on the flaps are just plain funny, the second I think is pretty shameful (if true).
Two things, their journalist claimed:
"pilot used wing flaps to help lift plane over the 15ft southern perimeter fence" and "the flaps on the wing were deployed allowing it to scrape over the perimeter fence"
"Last night it emerged Mrs Burkill had contacted publicist Max Clifford with plans to sell her husbands story. The publicist was understood to be in negotiations with Sunday newspapers"
The first comments on the flaps are just plain funny, the second I think is pretty shameful (if true).
Jan 19, 2008, 6:18 am
#653
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Earth
Programs: Proud owner of 3 Mucci's (yes, 3!) the latest being Chevaliere des Bains Chauds, BA Silver (6 yrs)
Posts: 10,985
It's disappointing that a so-called "moderator" would also partake in such personal attacks. Why, because I have a different viewpoint? Because I am asking obvious questions that no one else on this board dares to, for fear of being attacked and ostracized by the shills and those employed by BA on this board? Hundreds of people's lives were put at peril, and thankfully, no died despite there being one victim with serious injuries. While the pilots should be rightfully commended for a job well-done, I do not think think that should absolve any responsibility from BA. Until the investigation is finished, it's unreasonable to not take into consideration the possibility of faulty maintenance, and to personally attack me because I raise these points is naive and shameful, particularly coming from a "moderator".
Unless you work for BA you know absolutely nothing about the maintenance that is carried out on our aircraft and nor is it for you to post such drivel when you have no concrete evidence of any such claim.
I'll say it again - you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
Last edited by sunrisegirl; Jan 19, 2008 at 10:48 am Reason: I've chilled out a bit now, not quite so angry!!!
Jan 19, 2008, 6:25 am
#655
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Jan 19, 2008, 6:35 am
#657
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Where the work is
Programs: BA Silver / Hyatt gold
Posts: 332
As a licenced aircraft engineer, with type training on the 777 I am very keen to hear the theory behind the claims being made on here regarding poor maintenance on this particular aircraft.
Please report further
Please report further
Jan 19, 2008, 6:35 am
#658
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,212
This board is renowned for its cool decorum, so may I request that we try to maintain our reputation and perhaps reflect on the valuable and informative posts offered by those at the sharp end following this unfortunate incident.
Please continue to read on, digest, deliberate and above all post with civility and respect for others.
Thank you
Prospero
on behalf of the British Airways Executive Club Moderator Team
Please continue to read on, digest, deliberate and above all post with civility and respect for others.
Thank you
Prospero
on behalf of the British Airways Executive Club Moderator Team
Jan 19, 2008, 6:51 am
#659
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,775
The Sun Goddess' viewpoint is not even worthy of a response! Not content with having the Ground Staff upset by comments on this forum, one poster is now trying to destroy the morale of our First-Class Engineering Department!
What is certain is that the AAIB will get to the root causes of the failure once they have done their stuff, and then we will all know, won't we! From a BA insider's standpoint, I can tell you that out of all the cut-backs and cost-saving measures that have been implemented by Bob Ayling, Rod Eddington and Willie Walsh, safety always has and always will take a place of paramount importance!
For my part, I am proud to work for British Airways and, in addition to proudly standing side by side with the Ground Staff and Flying Staff, I am equally proud of our Engineers and their reputation!
Will I stop flying with BA? Will I hell!
What is certain is that the AAIB will get to the root causes of the failure once they have done their stuff, and then we will all know, won't we! From a BA insider's standpoint, I can tell you that out of all the cut-backs and cost-saving measures that have been implemented by Bob Ayling, Rod Eddington and Willie Walsh, safety always has and always will take a place of paramount importance!
For my part, I am proud to work for British Airways and, in addition to proudly standing side by side with the Ground Staff and Flying Staff, I am equally proud of our Engineers and their reputation!
Will I stop flying with BA? Will I hell!
Jan 19, 2008, 7:16 am
#660
Moderator: GLBT travelers, India-based Airlines and India; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I dealt with the customers from that flight as well as the friends and relatives. I have had training over the years for those types of scenarios, but it was totally different having to do it for real. Did everything go to plan? No. Was it predictable? No. Did every customer get personal care and attention if they wanted it? Yes.
Different agencies have different requirements and concerns, they do not all match up to the BA service concerns. The passengers were initially dealt with by the emergency services and the BAA, they are then passed to BA and are dealt with in the lounges at T1 (which is why they were closed temporarily), so refreshments are available to them whilst BA staff discuss what they need in relatively relaxing conditions. Whatever the passengers needed was provided (within reason), for example a locksmith if their keys were on the aircraft, or a change of clothes etc., a car home or even just cash. Customers were given details of counseling if they wanted it, as well as the counselors that were there at the time. Customers were also given a free phone number for anything else they needed. The staff worked tirelessly in highly charged and emotional circumstances and I was so proud of my colleagues both in BA, the Police and the BAA.
To then see some of those customers say that they felt that not enough was done was upsetting, but you have to understand that the experience they had been through was very unsettling, it affects people differently. To see others latching onto those comments and passing judgement with no first hand experience of what happened and how the situation was handled is really disappointing. It is very easy to sit back after the event and point out errors and to make judgements, it is less easy to be faced with the situation with real people. All of the staff involved will be debriefed and their experiences and views will be used to develop the procedures for the future, and I pray that we will never need to do it again. I think that in the situation we were faced with things were handled as well as they could have been, but I don't think there will ever be a perfect resolution in that type of event, someone will always want something different because that is human nature.
Different agencies have different requirements and concerns, they do not all match up to the BA service concerns. The passengers were initially dealt with by the emergency services and the BAA, they are then passed to BA and are dealt with in the lounges at T1 (which is why they were closed temporarily), so refreshments are available to them whilst BA staff discuss what they need in relatively relaxing conditions. Whatever the passengers needed was provided (within reason), for example a locksmith if their keys were on the aircraft, or a change of clothes etc., a car home or even just cash. Customers were given details of counseling if they wanted it, as well as the counselors that were there at the time. Customers were also given a free phone number for anything else they needed. The staff worked tirelessly in highly charged and emotional circumstances and I was so proud of my colleagues both in BA, the Police and the BAA.
To then see some of those customers say that they felt that not enough was done was upsetting, but you have to understand that the experience they had been through was very unsettling, it affects people differently. To see others latching onto those comments and passing judgement with no first hand experience of what happened and how the situation was handled is really disappointing. It is very easy to sit back after the event and point out errors and to make judgements, it is less easy to be faced with the situation with real people. All of the staff involved will be debriefed and their experiences and views will be used to develop the procedures for the future, and I pray that we will never need to do it again. I think that in the situation we were faced with things were handled as well as they could have been, but I don't think there will ever be a perfect resolution in that type of event, someone will always want something different because that is human nature.