"BA slashes fares"
Apr 20, 2006, 12:49 pm
#61
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by Cargo Cult
Cunning 
I guess then though BA could interpret as original day of departure and prevent you from doing that.
I guess then though BA could interpret as original day of departure and prevent you from doing that.N class:
"CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. CHANGES BEFORE DEPARTURE CHARGE GBP 30.00. NOTE - UPGRADES- UPGRADES PERMITTED TO ANY HIGHER FARE AT A CHARGE OF GBP30.00 PER TRANSACTION PER PASSENGER PLUS ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE FARE. CHARGE APPLIES TO ADULT AND CHILDREN ONLY. CHANGES ONLY PERMITTED UP TO DAY BEFORE OUTBOUND DEPARTURE. NO CHANGES OR UPGRADES PERMITTED ON DAY OF DEPARTURE. ORIGINAL REFUND CONDITIONS APPLY TO ANY UPGRADED TICKET. WHEN THE ITINERARY RESULTS IN A HIGHER FARE THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE COLLECTED AND THE GBP30 CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY. WHEN THE NEW ITINERARY RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE GBP30 CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY AND NO REFUND WILL BE MADE.WHERE THIS FARES IS COMBINED WITH ANOTHER FARE ON A HALF ROUND-TRIP BASIS THE MOST RESTRICTIVE PENALTIES CONDITIONS APPLY TO THE ENTIRE JOURNEY.VOLUNTARY CHANGE OF ROUTE NOT PERMITTED AT ANY TIME. AFTER DEPARTURE CHARGE GBP 30.00. NOTE - UPGRADES- UPGRADES PERMITTED TO ANY HIGHER FARE AT A CHARGE OF GBP30.00 PER TRANSACTION PER PASSENGER PLUS ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE FARE. CHARGE APPLIES TO ADULT AND CHILDREN ONLY. CHANGES ONLY PERMITTED UP TO DAY BEFORE DEPARTURE NO CHANGES OR UPGRADES PERMITTED ON DAY OF DEPARTURE. ORIGINAL REFUND CONDITIONS APPLY TO ANY UPGRADED TICKET. WHEN THE ITINERARY RESULTS IN A HIGHER FARE THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE COLLECTED AND THE GBP30 CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY. WHEN THE NEW ITINERARY RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE GBP30 CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY AND NO REFUND WILL BE MADE.WHERE THIS FARES IS COMBINED WITH ANOTHER FARE ON A HALF ROUND-TRIP BASIS THE MOST RESTRICTIVE PENALTIES CONDITIONS APPLY TO THE ENTIRE JOURNEY.VOLUNTARY CHANGE OF ROUTE NOT PERMITTED AT ANY TIME".
H Class:
"CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - CANCELLATIONS- BEFORE DEPARTURE FARE IS NON-REFUNDABLE.IF COMBINING A NON- REFUNDABLE FARE WITH A REFUNDABLE FARE ONLY THE Y/J-CLASS HALF RETURN AMOUNT CAN BE REFUNDED. ---------- AFTER DEPARTURE AT ANY TIME FARE IS NON-REFUNDABLE. IF COMBINING A NON-REFUNDABLE FARE WITH A REFUNDABLE FARE REFUND THE DIFFERENCE/IF ANY/BETWEEN THE FARE PAID AND THE APPLICABLE ONE-WAY FARE FOR THE JOURNEY UNDERTAKEN. -------- CHANGES ANY TIME CHARGE GBP 30.00 PER TRANSACTION PER PASSENGER. CHARGE DOES NOT APPLY TO INFANTS PAYING 10 PERCEN OF ADULT FARE. IF ORIGINAL BOOKING CLASS IS NOT AVAILABLE DIFFERENCE IN FARE SHOULD BE COLLECTED. IF NEW FARE IS LOWER THAN ORIGINAL FARE PAID NO REFUND WILL BE GIVEN. FOR ROUTE CHANGES FARE MUST BE RECALCULATED AND ANY ADDITIONAL COLLECTED PLUS GBP30.00 PER TRANSACTION PER PASSENGER.IF NEW FAR IS LOWER THAN ORIGINAL FARE PAID NO REFUND WILL B GIVEN. IN CASE OF TICKET UPGRADE THE ORIGINAL NON REFUNDABLE AMOUNT REMAINS NON-REFUNDABLE. NAME CHANGES NOT PERMITTED. ISSUANCE OF MCO FOR FURTHER TRANSPORTATION OR REFUND NOT PERMITTED AGAINST THIS RULE".
B Class:
"CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - CANCELLATIONS- BEFORE DEPARTURE FARE IS NON-REFUNDABLE.IF COMBINING A NON- REFUNDABLE FARE WITH A REFUNDABLE FARE ONLY THE Y/J-CLASS HALF RETURN AMOUNT CAN BE REFUNDED. ---------- AFTER DEPARTURE AT ANY TIME FARE IS NON-REFUNDABLE. IF COMBINING A NON-REFUNDABLE FARE WITH A REFUNDABLE FARE REFUND THE DIFFERENCE/IF ANY/BETWEEN THE FARE PAID AND THE APPLICABLE ONE-WAY FARE FOR THE JOURNEY UNDERTAKEN. -------- CHANGES ANY TIME CHARGE GBP 30.00 PER TRANSACTION PER PASSENGER. CHARGE DOES NOT APPLY TO INFANTS PAYING 10 PERCEN OF ADULT FARE. IF ORIGINAL BOOKING CLASS IS NOT AVAILABLE DIFFERENCE IN FARE SHOULD BE COLLECTED. IF NEW FARE IS LOWER THAN ORIGINAL FARE PAID NO REFUND WILL BE GIVEN. FOR ROUTE CHANGES FARE MUST BE RECALCULATED AND ANY ADDITIONAL COLLECTED PLUS GBP30.00 PER TRANSACTION PER PASSENGER.IF NEW FAR IS LOWER THAN ORIGINAL FARE PAID NO REFUND WILL B GIVEN. IN CASE OF TICKET UPGRADE THE ORIGINAL NON REFUNDABLE AMOUNT REMAINS NON-REFUNDABLE. NAME CHANGES NOT PERMITTED. ISSUANCE OF MCO FOR FURTHER TRANSPORTATION OR REFUND NOT PERMITTED AGAINST THIS RULE."
Apr 20, 2006, 3:29 pm
#62
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 736
Originally Posted by heartybob
Dummy bookings on AA.co.uk give full fare rules for domestic returns as follows (my bold). The only difference seems to me to be the increased flexibility in the "lower" classes such as N class. Am I missing something?:
Originally Posted by BA
What changes have been made to B and H class conditions?
Currently
Changes can be made on day of departure
No change fee
Bookings have to be upgraded to Y class and difference in fare paid
From 20th April
Changes cannot be made on day of departure
£30 change fee
If B class is available on day of change no additional cost is levied on the ticket
Currently
Changes can be made on day of departure
No change fee
Bookings have to be upgraded to Y class and difference in fare paid
From 20th April
Changes cannot be made on day of departure
£30 change fee
If B class is available on day of change no additional cost is levied on the ticket
Apr 20, 2006, 5:00 pm
#63
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine, & London, UK
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Posts: 3,604
Originally Posted by Cargo Cult
The conditions you quote seem to be at odds with what BA themselves are saying (as referenced by G-BOAC in post 31):
Apr 21, 2006, 12:22 am
#64
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,353
The option to change flight times/upgrade is now available in MMB for a cheap ET flight I have (but not for a more complex ex-AMS MFU).
Even though I can select the flights I 'want' to change, and pick new ones, I get an error message and it won't price them out for me. So much for that then.
Even though I can select the flights I 'want' to change, and pick new ones, I get an error message and it won't price them out for me. So much for that then.
Apr 21, 2006, 12:23 am
#65
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,775
........Somebody tell me this is a wind up - please!!! (For non-Brits, "Wind Up" means practical joke!!!)
How is Gatwick short-haul supposed to return to profitability this way?
How do we retain our superior short-haul presence at Heathrow when we're going to slash the profits across the board?
..........Unless this is a clever conspiracy (which is what I have suspected for a few years now) to get the excuse to axe Gatwick routes, reduce our LHR shorthaul flights to release valuable LHR slots - et voila, a bargaining chip for "Open Skies"!!!
How is Gatwick short-haul supposed to return to profitability this way?
How do we retain our superior short-haul presence at Heathrow when we're going to slash the profits across the board?
..........Unless this is a clever conspiracy (which is what I have suspected for a few years now) to get the excuse to axe Gatwick routes, reduce our LHR shorthaul flights to release valuable LHR slots - et voila, a bargaining chip for "Open Skies"!!!
Apr 21, 2006, 12:24 am
#66
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Edinburgh UK
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Originally Posted by BA
What changes have been made to B and H class conditions?
Currently
Changes can be made on day of departure
No change fee
Bookings have to be upgraded to Y class and difference in fare paid
From 20th April
Changes cannot be made on day of departure
£30 change fee
If B class is available on day of change no additional cost is levied on the ticket
What changes have been made to B and H class conditions?
Currently
Changes can be made on day of departure
No change fee
Bookings have to be upgraded to Y class and difference in fare paid
From 20th April
Changes cannot be made on day of departure
£30 change fee
If B class is available on day of change no additional cost is levied on the ticket
These are actually the rules for CEUNCBA Club fares.
My plan would have been to:
£30 changes up to day of departure.
£30 upgrades to Y/J on day of departure (thus costing business travellers who need to change a firtune by requiring upgrade to Y/J
5 tier points on all fares (unless they changed B and H to a sort of YPlus as on BA Connect in which case 20 points as normal)
Apr 21, 2006, 1:12 am
#67
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 736
Originally Posted by heartybob
The BA announcement seems to me to relate only to new conditions for one-way fares, not returns. However, AA.co.uk also seems to be quoting new fare conditions for "N" class returns. Conditions for "H" and "B" class returns appear to me to be unchanged, i.e. changeable up to departure for 30GBP. I acknowledge that dummy return bookings on BA.com in "B" and "H" classes appear to give give different fare conditions to AA.co.uk, but AA.co.uk seems to me to be more in line with BA's announcement than BA.com.
There is a whiff of uncertainty about these changes is unpleasantly bmi-like...
While we're playing fantasy-BAEC, I'd personally make the following changes to European short haul TP earning to reflect slightly better that cost of the ticket:
J/C/D/I: 40
Y: 30 (to reflect that it's very close to J, revenue-wise)
B/H: 20
All others: 10 or 5 (perhaps another subdivisision on fare bucket?)
You could argue that I fares - now the least flexible you can get - should earn fewer TPs than other business fares, but I think that would be a mistake - the TPs are a big part of the reason for buying I fares - take them away and you might as well go for the cheapest option instead == lost revenue. I suspect there are not so many golds who got that status mainly on I fares, and those that did are likely FTers and hence BA's best custoemrs anyway
Apr 21, 2006, 1:38 am
#68
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold(OWE), QF LTG, MR Plat, IHG Spire, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,156
Originally Posted by Cargo Cult
J/C/D/I: 40
Y: 30 (to reflect that it's very close to J, revenue-wise)
B/H: 20
All others: 10 or 5 (perhaps another subdivisision on fare bucket?)
Y: 30 (to reflect that it's very close to J, revenue-wise)
B/H: 20
All others: 10 or 5 (perhaps another subdivisision on fare bucket?)
Apr 21, 2006, 2:07 am
#69
Join Date: Jul 2005
Programs: MUCCI Classe des Flatteurs Preferes, LH SEN, BA silver, IHG Plat Amb, Accor Plat
Posts: 967
It is all a marketing gimmick.
I've checked the round trip fares to TLS and they are no different to what they have been all year. I see that the one way fares are the components of the round trip fare that you see when selecting flights - I don't know when this happened but it was like this last week before the announcement when I was pricing up some one ways.
The only difference is the £30 change fee.
I've checked the round trip fares to TLS and they are no different to what they have been all year. I see that the one way fares are the components of the round trip fare that you see when selecting flights - I don't know when this happened but it was like this last week before the announcement when I was pricing up some one ways.
The only difference is the £30 change fee.
Apr 21, 2006, 3:13 am
#70
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,656
Originally Posted by bealine
........Somebody tell me this is a wind up - please!!! (For non-Brits, "Wind Up" means practical joke!!!)
How is Gatwick short-haul supposed to return to profitability this way?
How do we retain our superior short-haul presence at Heathrow when we're going to slash the profits across the board?
..........Unless this is a clever conspiracy (which is what I have suspected for a few years now) to get the excuse to axe Gatwick routes, reduce our LHR shorthaul flights to release valuable LHR slots - et voila, a bargaining chip for "Open Skies"!!!
How is Gatwick short-haul supposed to return to profitability this way?
How do we retain our superior short-haul presence at Heathrow when we're going to slash the profits across the board?
..........Unless this is a clever conspiracy (which is what I have suspected for a few years now) to get the excuse to axe Gatwick routes, reduce our LHR shorthaul flights to release valuable LHR slots - et voila, a bargaining chip for "Open Skies"!!!
Presumably the lower fares will get more people travelling?
Apr 21, 2006, 3:29 am
#71
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Location: Near LHR
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Posts: 715
Allow me to steer this in a slightly different direction.
What interested me in this saga is a pathetic lack of professionalism and knowledge displayed by the media that covered the "story" (a non-story, really, but a real find for lazybones who prefer press-release 'quickies' because it is not as demanding as any real reporting).
BBC News 24 treated us to shots, from every possible angle, of BA 747s - in a story about ticket prices on European flights.
With this sort of accuracy, why not use pictures of United 777s parked at ICN or KIX? They are just as relevant to BAs European routes.
And then what?
Then there is the insufferable Simon Calder, offering as usual no knowledge of the subject but plenty of irrelevant drivel. His keenest observation was that some European fares are larger than a fuel surcharge on a long-haul route. SO WHAT? What difference does it make? I bought a box of cigars to a good friend at LGW Duty Free which was the same price as my Club ticket to Bari - so what does is prove or disprove? That smoking is bad for you or that Club ticket to Bari is too cheap? Or maybe that BA should be flying to Cuba?
Simon Calder, with his pointless factoids and meaningless comparisons, is a symbol and the standard-bearer of incompetent, uninformed and tabloid-style reporting which is a pain to read and does nothing to inform the public.
Now let me get my remote and switch to QVC The Shopping Channel where I might learn something useful.
What interested me in this saga is a pathetic lack of professionalism and knowledge displayed by the media that covered the "story" (a non-story, really, but a real find for lazybones who prefer press-release 'quickies' because it is not as demanding as any real reporting).
BBC News 24 treated us to shots, from every possible angle, of BA 747s - in a story about ticket prices on European flights.
With this sort of accuracy, why not use pictures of United 777s parked at ICN or KIX? They are just as relevant to BAs European routes.
And then what?
Then there is the insufferable Simon Calder, offering as usual no knowledge of the subject but plenty of irrelevant drivel. His keenest observation was that some European fares are larger than a fuel surcharge on a long-haul route. SO WHAT? What difference does it make? I bought a box of cigars to a good friend at LGW Duty Free which was the same price as my Club ticket to Bari - so what does is prove or disprove? That smoking is bad for you or that Club ticket to Bari is too cheap? Or maybe that BA should be flying to Cuba?
Simon Calder, with his pointless factoids and meaningless comparisons, is a symbol and the standard-bearer of incompetent, uninformed and tabloid-style reporting which is a pain to read and does nothing to inform the public.
Now let me get my remote and switch to QVC The Shopping Channel where I might learn something useful.
Apr 21, 2006, 4:30 am
#72
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London. Edinburgh, Cornwall
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Posts: 7,950
Originally Posted by Andrius
What interested me in this saga is a pathetic lack of professionalism and knowledge displayed by the media that covered the "story" (a non-story, really, but a real find for lazybones who prefer press-release 'quickies' because it is not as demanding as any real reporting).
I agree, but some of us are paying attention to the small print...
The Scotsman 21 April
BA takes on its no-frills rivals
BRITISH Airways launched an aggressive campaign to challenge its no-frills rivals yesterday by slashing one-way short-haul fares by as much as 50 per cent.
But the move, which excludes flights to and from Scotland, was dismissed as a sham by other airlines.
BA is offering one-way tickets from London to 65 destinations across Europe starting from £29, in a direct challenge to the likes of EasyJet and Ryanair.
It said the price cuts were part of an overhaul of the airline's fare structure, rather than a one-off promotion, and it would continue to offer "the same excellent standard of service", including free golf club carriage and allocated seats.
EasyJet said it was "not concerned" by the move, while Michael Cawley, the deputy chief executive of Ryanair, said BA needed to be "more honest and transparent" about its long-haul fuel surcharges, which recently rose to £35 each way.
BA has also scrapped non-changeable economy tickets, meaning passengers can alter their flights up to midnight the day before departure for a £30 fee. Previously, they had to buy a new ticket.
But many frequent travellers - including those on busy routes between London and Scotland - face having to buy more expensive tickets if they want to change plans at the last minute.
Michael Wood, 51, a consultant from Edinburgh, said: "I used to buy semi-flexible tickets, but now those cannot be altered on the day of travel - which is obviously when I'm most likely to change my plans. It's full-fare or nothing now - £300 a time."
BA insisted there would be no job cuts as a result of the cheaper fares. Willie Walsh, the new chief executive, has already outlined plans to reduce costs by £450 million, including the loss of 600 management jobs and cuts in call centres and travel shops.
BA takes on its no-frills rivals
BRITISH Airways launched an aggressive campaign to challenge its no-frills rivals yesterday by slashing one-way short-haul fares by as much as 50 per cent.
But the move, which excludes flights to and from Scotland, was dismissed as a sham by other airlines.
BA is offering one-way tickets from London to 65 destinations across Europe starting from £29, in a direct challenge to the likes of EasyJet and Ryanair.
It said the price cuts were part of an overhaul of the airline's fare structure, rather than a one-off promotion, and it would continue to offer "the same excellent standard of service", including free golf club carriage and allocated seats.
EasyJet said it was "not concerned" by the move, while Michael Cawley, the deputy chief executive of Ryanair, said BA needed to be "more honest and transparent" about its long-haul fuel surcharges, which recently rose to £35 each way.
BA has also scrapped non-changeable economy tickets, meaning passengers can alter their flights up to midnight the day before departure for a £30 fee. Previously, they had to buy a new ticket.
But many frequent travellers - including those on busy routes between London and Scotland - face having to buy more expensive tickets if they want to change plans at the last minute.
Michael Wood, 51, a consultant from Edinburgh, said: "I used to buy semi-flexible tickets, but now those cannot be altered on the day of travel - which is obviously when I'm most likely to change my plans. It's full-fare or nothing now - £300 a time."
BA insisted there would be no job cuts as a result of the cheaper fares. Willie Walsh, the new chief executive, has already outlined plans to reduce costs by £450 million, including the loss of 600 management jobs and cuts in call centres and travel shops.
Apr 21, 2006, 6:07 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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and The Independent saw through the marketing haze as well
http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...icle359164.ece
British Airways' no-frills rivals yesterday dismissed the airline's attempt to launch a fares war on European routes as a "gimmick and a scam", saying BA could never compete on price until it was genuinely low-cost ...
(BA) Examples include £29 one-way from London to Manchester and Bordeaux, £32 to Amsterdam and £39 to Nice, Naples, Venice and Barcelona.
But the lowest price available yesterday on the BA website for a one-way ticket from London to Manchester travelling today was £156, while the fare to Bordeaux was £90.10 and to Amsterdam it was £152.10. The cheaper fares on the website were limited to mid-week, off-peak travel. However, a single adult fare to Naples in Italy on 4 May was quoted at £570.10 because only club class seats are available.
The Independent is of course the newspaper that the well-informed Simon Calder writes for. Andrius said Simon Calder, with his pointless factoids and meaningless comparisons, is a symbol and the standard-bearer of incompetent, uninformed and tabloid-style reporting which is a pain to read and does nothing to inform the public. Crikey! I don't think that's at all accurate.
Andrius may well wish to scorn travel journalists, but there are many more ahead of SC who do fit that description.
British Airways' no-frills rivals yesterday dismissed the airline's attempt to launch a fares war on European routes as a "gimmick and a scam", saying BA could never compete on price until it was genuinely low-cost ...
(BA) Examples include £29 one-way from London to Manchester and Bordeaux, £32 to Amsterdam and £39 to Nice, Naples, Venice and Barcelona.
But the lowest price available yesterday on the BA website for a one-way ticket from London to Manchester travelling today was £156, while the fare to Bordeaux was £90.10 and to Amsterdam it was £152.10. The cheaper fares on the website were limited to mid-week, off-peak travel. However, a single adult fare to Naples in Italy on 4 May was quoted at £570.10 because only club class seats are available.
The Independent is of course the newspaper that the well-informed Simon Calder writes for. Andrius said Simon Calder, with his pointless factoids and meaningless comparisons, is a symbol and the standard-bearer of incompetent, uninformed and tabloid-style reporting which is a pain to read and does nothing to inform the public. Crikey! I don't think that's at all accurate.
Andrius may well wish to scorn travel journalists, but there are many more ahead of SC who do fit that description.
Apr 21, 2006, 6:18 am
#74
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Posts: 3,544
Well, I think this kind of proves Andrius's point. To compare the lowest fare available with booking a ticket yesterday for today (a friday, not insignificantly) is sheer nonsense.
And how long would it have taken them to find that one day in the future to some european destination which is fully booked in Y?
All airlines do yield management, even the low cost ones, and BA never said it would stop doing that.
Admittedly the easyjet lowest fare today (what's left of it) is £120.99, so it's still cheaper than BA. It then comes down to passenger choice - pay 30 quid extra to travel on BA. If BA can command that yield premium over easyjet - hat's off to them
And how long would it have taken them to find that one day in the future to some european destination which is fully booked in Y?
All airlines do yield management, even the low cost ones, and BA never said it would stop doing that.
Admittedly the easyjet lowest fare today (what's left of it) is £120.99, so it's still cheaper than BA. It then comes down to passenger choice - pay 30 quid extra to travel on BA. If BA can command that yield premium over easyjet - hat's off to them
Apr 21, 2006, 6:41 am
#75
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Originally Posted by BlackBerryAddict
Well, I think this kind of proves Andrius's point.
There was of course more in the Independent article which I didn't quote for reasons of space and adhering to t+cs. I could have added:
... Ryanair ... urged BA to be "more honest and transparent" with its pricing. Michael Cawley, deputy chief executive of the Irish carrier, said: "Ryanair's fares are still only a fraction of BA's even with their so-called fare shake-up."
EasyJet claimed that return fares on BA would in many cases be no cheaper than before because the airline previously charged passengers extra for flying one-way. The airline challenged BA to say what its average fare would now be following the initiative, saying easyJet's was £42 one-way. A spokeswoman said the BA offer amounted to little more than a gimmick. "Over the years, BA has threatened to cut its fares to compete with low-cost airlines several times, but low fares are not sustainable without a low-cost base," she added.
which all sounds pretty plausible to me.
I would believe more of the BA hype if they could demonstrate that the 'new' arrangements applied to routes without low frills competition such as ZRH. Has anyone found a list of the 'more than 65' relevant destinations?