Swiss/BA alliance collapse
Apr 24, 2004, 3:30 am
#1
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Greifensee, Swiss-o-land
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Swiss/BA alliance collapse
In Switzerland, there has never been an instance when the Swiss
culture/population were ever able to integrate with any outside partner on an
equal footing. In the case of UBS/PaineWebber, for example, that was not an
integration with a partner. Rather, it was an example of an outright
acquisition by a Swiss company. The Swiss have virtually no experience as a
partner. It's the whole pie or no pie. They lack the skill set to be a good
partner. It's just not part of the culture and they are finally learning
that the rest of the world will no longer tolerate this arrogant and selfish
behaviour.
This episode with OneWorld sheds great light on how dysfunctional Swiss
business and society has become. Switzerland has become a country that has
lost its way because it doesn't know how to be a good partner. It only knows
how to be the top dog.
Future of the alpine island doesn't look too good!
culture/population were ever able to integrate with any outside partner on an
equal footing. In the case of UBS/PaineWebber, for example, that was not an
integration with a partner. Rather, it was an example of an outright
acquisition by a Swiss company. The Swiss have virtually no experience as a
partner. It's the whole pie or no pie. They lack the skill set to be a good
partner. It's just not part of the culture and they are finally learning
that the rest of the world will no longer tolerate this arrogant and selfish
behaviour.
This episode with OneWorld sheds great light on how dysfunctional Swiss
business and society has become. Switzerland has become a country that has
lost its way because it doesn't know how to be a good partner. It only knows
how to be the top dog.
Future of the alpine island doesn't look too good!
Last edited by whoopster; Apr 24, 2004 at 3:37 am
Apr 24, 2004, 6:37 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: (SMV) St. Moritz, Switzerland
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Not to Shatter Your Illusion
The same thing happens when two Swiss companies merge.
Diamler - Chrysler anyone?
It is a double edged sword. If the acquiring company has the right culture for long term survival, the strategy is correct. If the acquiring company had the wrong culture..... the death spiral goes faster.
Diamler - Chrysler anyone?
It is a double edged sword. If the acquiring company has the right culture for long term survival, the strategy is correct. If the acquiring company had the wrong culture..... the death spiral goes faster.
Apr 24, 2004, 6:43 am
#4
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Originally Posted by eMailman
The same thing happens when two Swiss companies merge.
Diamler - Chrysler anyone?
It is a double edged sword. If the acquiring company has the right culture for long term survival, the strategy is correct. If the acquiring company had the wrong culture..... the death spiral goes faster.
Diamler - Chrysler anyone?
It is a double edged sword. If the acquiring company has the right culture for long term survival, the strategy is correct. If the acquiring company had the wrong culture..... the death spiral goes faster.
Uh... non sequitor. Daimler-Benz is a German company.
Apr 24, 2004, 6:46 am
#5
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,656
Excuse me for being a little dense here, but is there actually any news here?
I had a quick look in the Swiss forum and this seems prompted by a single newspaper article. Now the press speculates all the time on things like this, and I would be immensely suprised if Swiss were to call off their integration into oneworld purely over a disagreement with BA over the FF programme. It seems a little silly to me.
FF programmes are a useful adjunct to the business of flying people from A to B (and sometimes C), but not the be all and end all.
From what I can see, Swiss would have a lot more to lose by not joining oneworld. Surely the STC isn't worth more than the benefits of joining a global alliance programme?
I had a quick look in the Swiss forum and this seems prompted by a single newspaper article. Now the press speculates all the time on things like this, and I would be immensely suprised if Swiss were to call off their integration into oneworld purely over a disagreement with BA over the FF programme. It seems a little silly to me.
FF programmes are a useful adjunct to the business of flying people from A to B (and sometimes C), but not the be all and end all.
From what I can see, Swiss would have a lot more to lose by not joining oneworld. Surely the STC isn't worth more than the benefits of joining a global alliance programme?
Apr 24, 2004, 11:42 pm
#7
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,257
Don't know if this has any significance re the alliance but BA very recently dropped the ID90 agreement with LX and now will only accept the higher priced ZED fare for interline travel. Seems a very unusual turn of events for a future oneworld partner. OTOH, for example, we have a face value agreement with VS, who even accept our ID100 tickets. The plot thickens...
May 3, 2004, 10:36 am
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,929
Looks like there are indeed problems between BA and Swiss:
Original story from Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5014137
BA and Swiss say talks hit snag
Mon 3 May, 2004 13:05
By Annika Breidthardt
ZURICH (Reuters) - Airline Swiss's plans to join the oneworld alliance have hit a snag as talks with British Airways on integrating its frequent-flyer scheme became bogged down in a dispute over client data, sending Swiss shares lower.
The two airlines said on Monday, however, that talks were continuing despite the disagreement.
A BA spokeswoman said Swiss should stick to an agreement inked last September, when it said it would share client data.
"(BA) has no plans to renegotiate the legally binding agreement which was agreed by the boards of both airlines," she said.
Swiss International Air Lines was due to join the strategic oneworld alliance -- seen by many as a key element in its fight for survival -- at the end of March.
Swiss first needs to reach an agreement, however, with oneworld founding member BA to join its frequent-flyer programme and that has been stalled by the spat over customer data.
Swiss' shares -- highly volatile as they are only held by a small number of investors -- fell 4.6 percent to 10.50 francs amid speculation the talks had totally broken down.
BA denied this, although the spokeswoman said: "BA and Swiss have put on hold some elements of airline systems work including the migration of frequent-flyer programmes until Swiss is able to proceed."
BA shares did not trade because of the public holiday, while Lufthansa shares traded 0.3 percent lower at 13.36 euros.
Airlines carefully guard their client data and Swiss's Chairman and Interim-CEO Pieter Bouw has made it clear he would not hand it over without a fight.
"There are still certain points that need to be resolved, but the two parties are talking," a Swiss spokeswoman said.
Swiss named former Lufthansa manager Christoph Franz as its new chief executive last month, triggering talk he might turn the airline towards Lufthansa's Star Alliance.
Swiss has not made a profit since it started flying two years ago. It was torn last year between joining BA's oneworld alliance or seeking support from Germany's Lufthansa.
Swiss said on Monday it was not in talks with Lufthansa, while Lufthansa declined to comment.
Mon 3 May, 2004 13:05
By Annika Breidthardt
ZURICH (Reuters) - Airline Swiss's plans to join the oneworld alliance have hit a snag as talks with British Airways on integrating its frequent-flyer scheme became bogged down in a dispute over client data, sending Swiss shares lower.
The two airlines said on Monday, however, that talks were continuing despite the disagreement.
A BA spokeswoman said Swiss should stick to an agreement inked last September, when it said it would share client data.
"(BA) has no plans to renegotiate the legally binding agreement which was agreed by the boards of both airlines," she said.
Swiss International Air Lines was due to join the strategic oneworld alliance -- seen by many as a key element in its fight for survival -- at the end of March.
Swiss first needs to reach an agreement, however, with oneworld founding member BA to join its frequent-flyer programme and that has been stalled by the spat over customer data.
Swiss' shares -- highly volatile as they are only held by a small number of investors -- fell 4.6 percent to 10.50 francs amid speculation the talks had totally broken down.
BA denied this, although the spokeswoman said: "BA and Swiss have put on hold some elements of airline systems work including the migration of frequent-flyer programmes until Swiss is able to proceed."
BA shares did not trade because of the public holiday, while Lufthansa shares traded 0.3 percent lower at 13.36 euros.
Airlines carefully guard their client data and Swiss's Chairman and Interim-CEO Pieter Bouw has made it clear he would not hand it over without a fight.
"There are still certain points that need to be resolved, but the two parties are talking," a Swiss spokeswoman said.
Swiss named former Lufthansa manager Christoph Franz as its new chief executive last month, triggering talk he might turn the airline towards Lufthansa's Star Alliance.
Swiss has not made a profit since it started flying two years ago. It was torn last year between joining BA's oneworld alliance or seeking support from Germany's Lufthansa.
Swiss said on Monday it was not in talks with Lufthansa, while Lufthansa declined to comment.
Last edited by Shuttle-Bored; May 3, 2004 at 12:20 pm Reason: Corrected URL