rapidex

If the purser told you to evacuate would you refuse to obey that instruction also?

JD1905

If you went to board an aircraft 3 years ago and were told that you had to wear a face covering for the duration of the flight, would you have obeyed that instruction?

Never Stansted

What if the purser told you to wear a hat?

rapidex

My boss told me to wear a hat.There was a clip at the back of the flight deck as the headset wouldn't fit over it.

KARFA

What if a purser asked you to stop asking silly questions?

(or to really screw your arguments ask you to start asking them!)

ratechaser

Which is a fair point but at the same time lots of things can be entirely lawful, even if "the man on the Clapham omnibus" would consider them entirely unreasonable.

So back to my earlier post, if we were to take a situation where the CC decide that you are only allowed to travel if you wear a novelty hat, a cravat, and a pair of boxing gloves. All of which they are happy to supply.

Absurd - yes. Unreasonable - yes. Unlawful... probably not. So in this extreme case, could they remove you for not following a lawful instruction?

I know it's an extreme example, but is just there to illustrate a point that there must be a reasonable limit to how far you can go with a 'lawful instruction'...

JD1905

I think it comes down to Post 9 in this thread from 9 years ago!

So what is a lawful crew command?

rapidex

Its the Captain that removes you.The Cabin Crew are following his orders. Failure to obey the orders from the Cabin Crew shows you to be a possible safety hazard in the event of an emergency.
That would be the reason for removal.

KARFA

No it doesn't. Generally a lawful instruction is one that is not unlawful, given by a person in command, whether verbally or in writing.

The captain is unquestionably in command on the aircraft, and can give instruction either directly or through the cabin crew.

ratechaser

You're entirely missing the point I'm making. How does failure to obey an order that is utterly unreasonable (whilst still falling on the very very broad side of 'lawful') make you a safety risk?

Incidentally, I'm not specifically talking about masks here - others can choose to die on that hill if they wish. More a question of is there a reasonable limit to what can constitute a lawful instruction. And perhaps at some point it will get tested in court...

layz

Seems like the last time I was in Italy was April (seems more recent then that). I knew that in May Italy removed almost all mask and green pass requrements, but they kept them on public transport.
So I was going to join this thread and state that the rules in Italy required you to wear a mask, but it turns out that it's only for public transport within Italy (including domestic flights). So I learned something new here.
You can see how there can be misunderstandings though. Many Italians on-board probably think they need to wear as mask as they need to wear them on the bus, the train, domestic flights, etc

msaps

Annoying and ridiculous as it may be - the tried and tested solution is to wear it for TO and then either drink/eat very slowly or make the most of the bar if in CE.

While I do hope certain countries realise that you can catch/spread covid while eating a meal / drinking / queuing in a crowded jet bridge making this onboard mask charade rather pointless - I’m not very confident for this winter…

But another +1 for adapt rather than argue - it’s stressful enough travelling at the minute.

HIDDY

To be fair to the OP he did seem to know for sure the request was wrong so questioned it in a civil manner. I don't see any problem in that.

JD1905

Okay, gotcha. So long as it is not illegal then the crew are allowed to request you to do it.

I see clear cases where this works well. Somebody takes their top off because it's too warm on a flight, they haven't broken the law but the Crew request them to put their top back on and they should. I suppose this also would apply to the wearing of a face mask.

As mentioned upthread, I'd like to see this stand the test of reasonability. Asking somebody to put on a T-Shirt on a plane full of people would be reasonable in my opinion, whereas asking somebody to wear a face-mask would not be.

Wozza2404

But it wasn't unreasonable. Italy required masks to be worn on public transport - now here it doesn't apply to international flights but on a flight to Germany, which has the same rules, it DOES apply to international flights.

Is it so far a stretch that the cabin crew could have been given new information that morning? Either by the airline or the government?

They weren't asking OP to wear a fedora. It was a mask, which has been mandatory - on and off - for two years - and still mandatory today to some destinations.

Put the mask on. Politely question the policy with the crew. And if they have made a mistake - take it off when the announcement is made.

But stomping feet - as is being advocated by some here - should see you removed from the aircraft, IMHO. Unless you work for the Italian Goverment Health Department, you cannot be 100% confident something hasn't changed in the very recent past regarding mask madates in the current climate.