aoyamaguy

Resurrecting this thread as we had a similar go-around on today’s BA280 arrival at LHR from LAX on a 4-class 777-300.

We had the totally standard 40 mins and 20 mins to landing calls from the flight deck and everyone seemed strapped in as normal. 15+ mins later I noticed there had been no IFM “cabin crew, seats for landing” announcement and we seemed to be getting pretty low (but still above the clouds). I was in row 1 and also noticed no crew in the galley at doors 1. Then the wheels went down. Still nothing. Then we dipped underneath the cloud and I could see we were just about past the reservoirs on approach to 09L. Very quick PA from IFM to say seats for landing and a few seconds later one of the F cabin crew rushed into the galley area, swiftly followed by the IFM who ran past me (running, not walking quickly). She shouted at the other guy “are you secure” and he said yes.

Not sure exactly what was happening at this point but maybe she was trying to get to door 1L to give the cabin secure message to the flight deck? Whatever the intention, this didn’t work as we powered up just over the M25 for the go-around.

A rather terse sounding captain came on a few minutes later to say “I can’t land the aircraft until I know the cabin has been secured and that did not happen on this occasion so we will try again, hopefully with a secure cabin this time”. We landed normally at the second attempt and then when we pulled onto stand the captain made a goodbye announcement apologising for the delay (we were 35 mins late plus another 10 for the go around) and saying there had been “rather more flying than expected”.

Obviously I have no idea what caused the cabin not to be secured properly but if I had to guess I would say the IFM may not have realised how close we were to the ground due to the cloud cover.

Confus

I think that’s a bit unprofessional from the pilot in the PA. He wouldn’t necessarily have known why the cabin wasn’t secure, it could have been someone having a heart attack (for example).

aoyamaguy

Agreed, I was quite surprised he mentioned it so specifically as he could easily have just said the approach had to be aborted without giving a reason.

VSLover

i get the sense lately that pilots are also fed to the teeth with the various ground op delays at LHR and well this one obviously woke up on the wrong side of the rest area to be so snippy to the cabin crew!

Haagen Daz

I took a Meridiana flight out of Florence during which the safety briefing wasn't even started until we had taken off and were up in the air!

South London Bon Viveur

Which might worry a nervous flyer- indeed I imagine that the Captain would be criticised for giving no reason. In this case the Captain gave a reason, which seems like the correct one, and I am not sure why it was unprofessional for him to have done so- it was a statement of fact. Not a direct criticism. And even if there was an implicit criticism, seems fair enough.

marconess

I have a video from my last Iberia Flight (London to Madrid).

The safety video was half way through demonstrating how to put on a life vest as the wheels left the runway.

Can I help you

I’m surprised the Flight Crew didn’t check earlier why they hadn’t received the Cabin Secure from the SCCM, lowering the undercarriage wouldn’t normally be done without this?

Waterhorse

On the newer generation Airbus family aircraft the secure indication doesn't appear on the ECAM memo (screen in front of the pilots) until below 2000ft radio alt - 6 miles from landing. So at this point if the cabin is not secure it can be a bit late to enable a quick call and check with the cabin. It was easier to assess things with the slider as we could see it earlier, so it can be diffulicult to check to see if there is a real issue or if the SCCM has just forgotten to press the button.

Can I help you

I agree Waterhouse but this was a B777-300, you would expect the Cabin Secure signal before you lowered the undercarriage?

Spanish

I can see this being a major issue with a heavy cart flying forward during the landing roll and braking actions.

Waterhorse

Not sure about the details on the 777-300, but the two items are not linked. The cabin secure check is part of the Landing Cxlist which is completed when the gear is down, the flaps are set for landing and the speedbrakes armed. The gear may well be taken a lot earlier than on final if speed or height (basically energy management) is an issue as the wheels are the most effective drag producers when airborne we have as pilots.

Can I help you

I get you but from experience the Flight Crew would have expected the Cabin Secure earlier than that and normally would have called out.
As you say there are reasons why they dropped them early.

steview111

Often I’ll drop the gear a mile or two early if we haven’t got cabin secure. It works as an audible hint to the cabin crew but also (air traffic speed control permitting) buys an extra few seconds for them to finish securing.

I don’t think it’s unprofessional for the Captain to say it as it is either. If there’s a reason for it not being secure then there’s a reason. But there’s no point lying about it.

kdhurst380

As much as BA pilots are usually spot on for honesty, and it is appreciated in most cases, there are some cases, such as this imo, where a little discretion wouldn't go amiss and most passengers wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Some delayed paperwork, making some further cabin checks, whatever else you can come up with. It's better than publicly shaming your cabin crew and then making sarcastic remarks afterwards, such as "a little more flying than expected". I'd be feeling quite embarrassed after that if I were one of your colleagues.

If there's going to be feedback or staff collarings (can be one and the same), then this should be done by following the proper procedures and not over the PA for everyone else to make their own judgements.

I was once in a restaurant where a manager gave a waiter what for in front of me over a mistake, I was so appalled I haven't been back since.

I wasn't appalled by the mistake, it was the fact that an example was being made of a staff member in front of me.

There is no professionalism in that at all.