AviosTreasureHunter

I think LX can deny you compensation as 'exceptional' due to snow in London.
However if other options left and LX did not re-book you on same day flight on other airline you could possibly have a UK261 claim.
I would advise you have a look to see if alternative flights left for LHR-ZRH yesterday. This could include on other airlines, and possibly via other hubs (FRA, VIE etc).
If no other options then likely no claim, however if other options did take off then you could very likely bring a claim.
I filed a MCOL against LX recently for a cancellation of a ZRH-LCY 2 weeks ago. They said fog but other flights landed and took off around same time, from ZRH and into LCY. So I doubt it merited the cancellation.
However regardless of compensation, LX need to provide you meals and hotels.

Sigwx

The main difference was two fold. Firstly the aircraft landed into LHR in a period of thick freezing fog. This coats the back of the fan blades in ice and it must be removed prior to departure. It isn't an easy job to get up there so it is an engineering task for the inspection and removal. Typically this is by use of hot air blowers on the aircraft stand.
On top of that it looks like an ATC slot to do with something further afield and so the earliest start-up time for de-icing gets pushed back to meet this.
When remote d-icing is used this start-up time is then 'frozen' (pardon the pun) and absorbed by the de-icing team who then update the expected time the aircraft will be released for taxi to the runway. So it's a process with many variables that produces variable results but the root cause is the same, weather.
Everyone on that first wave needed deicing and to help free up stands for arriving aircraft, BA uses where possible a remote deicing facility. This is actually controlled by BA and the airline 'takes possession' of a chunk of taxiway from NATS control. The BA one is called 'JEDI' and you may see signs if taxing around T2B/C in the south side. There is however continuous co-ordination between the two agencies. At the Eastern end is another facility called 'VADER', though I'm not sure who operates that. It takes a while to de-ice the larger aircraft and after a while the rigs need replenishing too. We save time by configuring the aircraft before entering the de-icing pad and we keep the engines running. From entering to exiting, paperwork, re configuring, checklists and then asking for taxi again from ATC takes about 10 or so minutes. so the next in line waiting is waiting 10 mins, a couple of minutes to get clearance to enter, come forward, stop, confirm aircraft set up etc. Then 10 for the spray and relevant details passed, and then exit, do the above as the next one enters etc etc. So from being next in line to asking for ATC clearance to taxi to the runway is easily 20 mins plus.

Some smaller aircraft are preemptively de-iced prior to crews arriving at the aircraft involved in the 1st wave of the day. however this is only effective if there has been hoar frost on a clear night, or a passing front in the night dumped some snow, and that the environment is no longer in what is knows as 'active frost' conditions. Days like yesterday had 'active frost' and low visibility for the majority of the day, hence the compounding chaos.

It seems a lot of longhauls had around 2 hour plus delays yesterday, some less and a few had longer. Everything just takes a lot longer in those conditions.

richiejv

Thank you. There were other lights which took off to ZRH (albeit delayed), as well as flights to Germany, Geneva etc. - I had asked if I could overnight at one of those and get an early flight today but no dice. It did sound as if there was genuinely zero availability on everything.

I didn't grab a hotel, just took a train home and returned today. I assume I can charge the travel costs back to Swiss.

Never Stansted

Thought I'd add a quick post on my experience going to CEDR on an EC 261 claim from a flight in early June. It was an LHR-OPO flight, booked in CE, out of T3. On the day of the flight the plane was ultimately cancelled about 90 minutes after the departure time. Every other flight from UK airports reached OPO that night including a BA departure two hours later (some were slightly delayed due to ATC and weather, but nothing more than a couple of hours or so). I was rebooked on the following day's flight in ET and ultimately arrived in OPO about 22 hours late.

I made a claim to BA on my return from the trip. It took until October for them to revert back at all and they replied declining the claim and stating that the cancellation was unavoidable due to weather. They settled my expenses without issue and I also received the (sadly paltry) Mennens downgrade compensation.

I took my claim to CEDR in early September; it was found admissible in mid-October, and BA responded in early November. Essentially I argued that while weather conditions may have necessitated a short delay it was clear that LHR was operating normally and every other flight had reached OPO that night. BA sent a response (which was longer that I had imagined and had seven attachments) which ultimately damaged their case because it showed that within an hour of the original time of departure all weather issues had cleared. They said that the plane scheduled to operate the flight had been sent to T4 for maintenance but couldn't be towed back to T3 because of the weather conditions and that since T3 wasn't their main terminal they couldn't be expected to have a spare plane there. I sent a response arguing that: (i) the BA evidence justified a short delay but there was no need for the cancellation; (ii) there were 'reasonable steps' that BA could have taken to access a spare plane (e.g bussing to T5 and boarding from a remote stand); and (iii) even if departure that night was not possible, BA could have operated a delayed flight the next morning (a 12 hour delay would have been better than a 22 hour delay).

CEDR ruled in my favour last week. The adjudicator issued quite a comprehensive ruling, stating that he accepted the cancellation was caused by exceptional circumstances but that in his view it could have been avoided if all reasonable measures had been taken. He noted in particular that there were intervals during the day when the plane could have been towed from T4 to T3, and that BA had cancelled the flight too swiftly given that weather conditions would have been fine to tow the plane only an hour or two later.

Just waiting for my £220 now...

Heathrow Tower

Airframe de-icing at LHR is the responsibility of the operator, not HAL.

AviosTreasureHunter

Hi there.
I think if all other re-routing options would have resulted in a delay of over 3 hours at ZRH then you would probably be unsuccessful in a MCOL claim against LX (if they defended it).
Reason being, that all re-routing options on all airlines that day would have still resulted in a delay due to the adverse weather at LHR.
Problem is the weather was 'freakish' and 'exceptional', and that the airport had put restrictions on operations.
If however, other flights did take off and had LX rebooked you onto them you would have arrived at ZRH within 3 hours of your original departure, but they did not book you on these, then you would have a MCOL claim against LX.
I would advise you look to see if any other flights left for ZRH and landed within 3 hours of your original planned arrival, if any did then I think you can make a claim.

Regards expenses, UK261 and EC261 (you can choose which applies for this flight) says you must be reimbursed for meals, hotels, or transport to an alternative airport.
Not sure if the travel back home would be covered, but certainly ask for it.

presence.unknown

Missed an LHR - CDG connection today from GLA due to a rotational delay, and have been rebooked on the next LHR-CDG flight tomorrow.

BA said they will reimburse hotel, taxi, etc. but that does that preclude me from claiming additional compensation from UK261?

corporate-wage-slave

These reimbursements are part of EC261 / UK261 but you can also claim delay compensation as well. Unless there was some other factor, I think you may struggle to claim this even off a rotational delay, given the conditions.

testycal

If I understand BA85 lhr yvr 7pm arrival original actual door open 1008pm qualifies 300 euro because longhaul but not over 4 hours? Pax on plane for 3.75 hours today when inspecting walk-around officer found control surface damage...captain's words....something hit the plane....captain obliquely referred to passenger rights before landing using the word compensation but no elaboration. He told us engineering was determining if frame was airworthy....would have expected a quicker duct tape repair

Sigwx

Sounds correct and the calculator agrees.

ScienceTeacher

Data point but maybe if use given the weather…

Am Gold, put in a claim on Monday morning for a trip on the Saturday gone.

Flight cancelled eight months ago for a day trip, rebooked the return to the day after. Hotel and food paid for, offered as an eVoucher or cash to the bank account provided when I respond.

I think there’s been a breakdown somewhere since Monzo is showing the pending BACS payment available tomorrow… (!) so the eVoucher option is mute.

Credit where it’s due../

peck

Thanks all for the advice. I just went to CEDR as I still haven't had any substantive response from BA in over 9 weeks. The process is very easy and only took me a few minutes really for anyone on the fence about doing it

WeLoveSpace

Hello
Does anyone know why the BA465 MAD-LHR is cancelled tonight ? The scheduled aircraft G-EUUZ arrived back to LHR 15 mins early from previous sector Krakow and was scheduled onto an EDI service instead of coming to MAD.

If i have an Iberia ticket on cancelled BA metal do i claim EU261 from Iberia or BA ?

thanks in advance
Welovespace

AviosTreasureHunter

Hello. Two queries.

1.
Does the Jager v EasyJet ruling mean that in essence weather can only apply to your 'flight in question'?
Situation with AY that HEL-BKK came into BKK late. So BKK-HEL was late and missed connection HEL-LHR.
AY say no 261 as snow at HEL delayed flight to BKK.
My flight however was BKK-HEL so not 'flight in question'.
This guide says I should be afforded comp as knock on effects not usually allowed as 'extraordinary'.
Did some reseach on this and found Jager v Easyjet.

2.
This query is for a friend.
He was scheduled to fly RAK-MAN. Few weeks before flight it was cancelled, no RAK-MAN within days of flight.
So rebooked onto RAK-LGW.
Got to LGW, with strikes and snow etc, had to pay £120 for taxi to London. £100 for hotel in London. £40 for bus to Manchester.
Is the £260 expenses reclaimable from EasyJet as duty of care?
Reading the legislation I think so however just want to ensure for him that him taking LGW instead of MAN does not open door for EasyJet to claim he willingly changed destintion.

Thanks.

KARFA

2. So yes that should be ok. My only caution is the hotel room, what time did the flight get in to LGW?

1. I don’t know the specifics of that case. However if that relates to cancellations at a hub it may not help you anyway since generally the view taken on ability to recover at a hub is less lenient than an outstation. As this is AY refusal is expected anyway, and the finnair forum is full of people struggling to get compensation for more clear cut cases than your own.