TWCLAM

If memory serves me right they also issued a previous legal challenge because they hadn't issued the notices which is EXACTLY why BA made sure to issue them this time.

KARFA

Yes they were also threatening Menzies with legal action for not issuing s188 notices for staff at LHR only a month ago.

https://unitetheunion.org/news-event...n-warns-unite/

BOH

You really cannot make this stuff up....in terms of how UNITE are operating. Is like a Carry On film, refusing to talk with BA until S188 notices are withdrawn but threatening another organisation with legal action for not having issued them.

From the linked article.....Unite regional officer Kevin Hall said: “Menzies have got to start playing by the rules or Unite will take legal or industrial action to ensure they do"

One has to feel sorry for BA staff for being represented by this bunch of incompetent buffoons.

TWCLAM

BOH My thoughts exactly. Going back to my earlier reference to the, aparant, speed BALPA & BA could thrash out a fairly decent deal which was begun much later and is already ( to all intents & purposes) completed but still UNITE wont sit at the table and discuss their members worries/ concerns/ fears and at least make a start on things.

I feel for the poor staff who are being hung out whilst the union roleplay "let's pretend it's the 70's" politicking whilst simultaneously making damn sure they send out a mailer at least once a month reminding members how "now more than ever you need to maintain your membership so we can fight for you" ( i've seen them so they're happening). UNITE needs to stop serving itself & start serving its members.

Ancient Observer

If I worked for BA, I would want a proper TU response. Unite have made proper/decent responses with other employers, why are they so completely useless with BA??

Due to historic work I did many years ago, I help out with a consultancy which is currently overwhelmed with Covid firings. Some employers are worse than BA. None of the TUs involved are this bad. (One TU rep from Unite made brilliant and effective use of social media to get their point across. Shame she's not involved here!!)

This despicable, insulting, gibberish about "Betraying Britain" is their low point.

Anonba

The point is that ba could propose temporary changes in contracts to last 2-3 years rather than permanently worsening contracts.

BOH

At the risk of annoying some people, from BAs perspective, why would they want to do this? The travel world, customer buying habits, labour market etc etc has shifted significantly over the past 20 years and some would say, permanently in the last 4 months. Many are predicting BA's main income of high yield J/F traffic will not return to previous levels for some 3-5 years....some are saying it never, ever will. Only today BA announced the permanent retirement of their entire 744 fleet which is the very fleet that has the very high J configurations. This is HUGELY significant to how BA see the long-haul J/F market in the next few years....particularly as the 744s are fully paid for and depreciated and fuel is (relatively) cheap. You don't need to be an economist or accountant to work out what BA's predictions are....

So why would any business want have a higher cost resource (staff are indeed a resource) at some future date when their whole income model has changed? It really is that simple, to keep hoping and expecting that BA will cave in on this is futile.

Yes, BA are certainly using this Covid situation to push through some long overdue changes to their staff cost base. I can agree it is not pleasant for those involved but I can 100% understand why this is happening. It certainly is not "betraying Britain" as the union so comically spout, BA is not a taxpayer owned organisation.

Starship73

Unite now threatening to move towards industrial action ‘with immediate effect’: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-...eporting-story

BOH

What a fantastic strategy of a move by Unite, almost genius in the current circumstances. The £100k+ union leaders will be sitting in their plush offices no doubt thinking, "that'll show 'em, this will save all those BA jobs".

One is reminded of the oft quoted saying, "Turkeys don't vote for Christmas". So often they do though....

TWCLAM

To add to their utter genius whilst distracted counting their money none of the geniuses at Unite has considered that their strike action would be overturned by the courts straight away.

Red Len probably needs to check his own arrogance. I can't see any court ruling any strike as legal when one party has, repeatedly, refused to discuss with the other party or even sit at the table. I appreciate this is balloting members not calling for a strike per say but it's an idiotic move. I guess those paying the unions salaries should at last be happy they are actually doing something for all that money. Even if it is a pointless, futile, probably illegal, act.

Starship73

Meanwhile IATA has just revised its passenger traffic forecast, pushing back any recovery of traffic to pre-Covid levels by a further year, to 2024. But according to Unite BA is facing "short term problems that require short term solutions"...

https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/pr/2020-07-28-02/

I honestly think the BA A380 fleet will be soon to face the axe - let's hope not

suley

I do feel for the staff as its a poor situation made worse by Unite's lack of engagement. It feel's it still has the power it had pre-covid and I see this almost as the mines strike's for the unions as for them, if they fail then they are done for or become less relivant as ultimatly BA has what its wanted for years. It will be interesting to see if a strike gets pass the ballot as I would suspect many members would be concered about the current enviroment and the already limited paypacket, those who are the most affected will likely want to strike but if BA does proceed with the fire and rehire on the 7th August then it would be intresting to see what effect a strike will have since they are all fired in the first instance.

I suspect a 7 day's of turbulance if it the 7th August.

TWCLAM

@suley Nothing will happen on the 7th August as any strike action takes 30 days to ballot. Unite can't even get their act together to plan a strike anywhere near the 'appropriate' date.

imho they are literally the poor staff's worst enemy now. BA & BALPA managed to sit down at a table and thrash out a pretty reasonable agreement in a short amount of time. Meanwhile Unite won't sit at the table and the best they can come up with is a strike which will be massively ineffective IF it goes ahead weeks after the horse has bolted.

BA have acted less than honorably however if the strike was voted for then they have an easy legal challenge in that they can demonstrate repeated attempts to talk to the union who called for the strike and the union fat cats can't even work out that their mistimed strike will be even later due to a quite clear & obvious challenge.

Ancient Observer

I am not convinced that Len wrote that letter. Other than his, er, interesting political views, he is normally more articulate than whoever wrote that letter. There is so much emotion and bizarre "thinking" in the letter. So it was probably written by another FTO, based on a draft from one of the legacy "shop stewards", or whatever they call themselves nowadays. Even then, the strike warning is just plain wrong, given the timing requirements of a strike, and BA's timing of deciding who stays/who goes. It is a letter written for a very particular internal audience.
I suspect BA will ignore it.
They will be far more worried about the hundreds of Employment Tribunals that they will soon be facing. Especially as most of the ET locations are closed, and the remote locations are buried under thousands of cases from Retail.
As an aside, do ET aawrds still deduct employer redundancy payments from ET awards?

tuonopepper

And its not as simple as being able to rehire at a lower pay rate in two years or whatever time frame. The market will dictate what the going rate of pay is at any given time, if in the interim lots of CC retire and other younger CC go to alternative careers there may be a shortage driving rates up.

Then there's potential training costs, familiarisation with company procedures etc etc....