Change to BAEC T&Cs : Class Action Waiver for US and Canadian Members
May 28, 2020, 10:08 am
#17
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: West Coast USA
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 559
May 28, 2020, 10:28 am
#20
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,775
Genuine question, why is neutral arbitration a worse proposition than a class action?
- The cost and hassle for any individual consumer to go to arbitration is high. For the small amounts being pursued, it's often not worth it. A class action allows for economies of scale, which is significantly in favour of the consumer. A large number of consumers can benefit without ever lifting a finger.
- Arbitration isn't really neutral. Arbitrators are supposed to be impartial, but the arbitration firms are selected by the company. They don't have to be overtly in league with management to know that, if they want their contract renewed or to win additional business, it's probably bad to be too pro-consumer in their decisions. And in at least one case, a company that was flooded with arbitration claims simply shut them all down by refusing to pay the arbitrator, i.e. the company essentially won by refusing to participate - you certainly can't do that in court, as there's a good chance of summary judgement against you.
There's more to it, of course, and that NYT article upthread is really worth reading if you're interested.
May 28, 2020, 10:52 am
#21
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,204
That waiver is not enforceable and is against local consumer protection laws in Quebec and Ontario. I will be challenging it and making complaints with the Quebec consumer protection office and probably with the US DOT as well.
Don't let corporations jam arbitrary one-sided terms down your throat. Don't be a sheep
Don't let corporations jam arbitrary one-sided terms down your throat. Don't be a sheep
May 28, 2020, 11:38 am
#22
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,746
Like others, I am baffled that this is BA's priority right now. I'd also be surprised if this survives litigation, (especially in the USA) when they are forcing consumers into agreeing to arbitration without any choice or compensation.
May 28, 2020, 12:54 pm
#24
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,775
BA and oneworld in general are already pretty low down my pecking order. I'm in Canada. And AA never ceases to annoy me every time I travel with them. So I'm not all that interested in moving an oneworld FF account to another oneworld airline.
Which article? Without you quoting something specific, it's hard to be sure what you're referring to. If you're asking about the NYT article about arbitration, it's not behind a paywall - I have no account with the NYT and was able to read the whole thing. If you've already reached your maximum free reads for the month, open it in a different browser.
May 28, 2020, 1:04 pm
#25
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 37
Thank you!
May 28, 2020, 1:21 pm
#27
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Near the Beach.
Posts: 202
Corporate arbitration clauses are not enforcable in North America. California and Oregon routinely throws out clauses in agreements, even when it's signed by both parties, on the grounds that one or more clauses are not enforcable. And someone else noted, in Parts of Canada, forced arbitration is a no no.
BA knows this well. They're just counting on the fact that some passengers will just accept it for what it is and BA will take undue advantage of their good faith to fleece them.
If you're in the US, write to the State Representatives and your congressman about this scheme by BA. A simple email would do. If possible, write to the DA's office as well.
May 28, 2020, 1:55 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,190
The timing may not be that odd... they're planning ahead, and maybe they're also planning to do something that could require such arbitration (and they would rather have that than the courts.)
IMNSHO, these arbitration clauses are a way to have the consumer sign away their right to any kind of legal recourse; doing so should be illegal across the board. However they are becoming all too common.
rb211.
IMNSHO, these arbitration clauses are a way to have the consumer sign away their right to any kind of legal recourse; doing so should be illegal across the board. However they are becoming all too common.
rb211.
May 28, 2020, 2:37 pm
#30
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BOS
Programs: BA GLD for LIfe, AA PLT 2 MM miler, B6 Mosaic, Star GLD; HH Diamond; Marriott PLT, IHG Plat
Posts: 1,368
Big changes coming?
I received the following from BA Executive Club today and wonder if it portends changes coming that BA is sure Americans/Canadians won't like:
We have amended the Terms and Conditions to include sections 33, which contains a Class Action Waiver (defined below) for residents of the United States and Canada and 34, which contains a dispute resolution and arbitration agreement for residents of the United States and Canada. These are important sections, which explain how a Dispute (defined below) arising from the Terms and Conditions will be handled for residents of the United States and Canada and confine such Disputes to arbitration on an individual basis only. Please read these sections carefully.
Interesting to choose now to waive a right to class actions and require arbitration. One might do this in preparation for making large changes that members as a class might find harmful. Are big changes in the offing?
We have amended the Terms and Conditions to include sections 33, which contains a Class Action Waiver (defined below) for residents of the United States and Canada and 34, which contains a dispute resolution and arbitration agreement for residents of the United States and Canada. These are important sections, which explain how a Dispute (defined below) arising from the Terms and Conditions will be handled for residents of the United States and Canada and confine such Disputes to arbitration on an individual basis only. Please read these sections carefully.
Interesting to choose now to waive a right to class actions and require arbitration. One might do this in preparation for making large changes that members as a class might find harmful. Are big changes in the offing?